#37 Conversation: Reading and Writing for Cantonese Speakers (粵, w/《絮言狂想》)
The following is a very special conversation episode where Raymond and I were joined by Israel, Kenny, and Samuel from the podcast seoi6 jin4 kwong4 soeng2. In that podcast, the trio uses Cantonese to discuss learning just about every other language in the world, and we highly recommend it to listeners of Chatty Cantonese. Another portion of our conversation appeared on the seoi6 jin4 kwong4 soeng2 feed back in January, so once you finish this episode, you might as well listen to the other part–you’ll find a link in the show notes.
以下呢一集係特備對談節目，Cameron 同我今次有絮言狂想播客節目嘅以色列、靳尼同三苗加入。 喺佢哋嘅播客裏面，三位主持使用粵語討論學習世間上幾乎所有其他語言嘅趣事，我哋特別推薦畀粵語白白講嘅聽眾。 我哋對話嘅另一部分已經喺一月份嘅絮言狂想節目中出現過，所以你聽完呢一集之後，不妨聽埋節目另一部分——你會喺我哋嘅節目說明中搵到連結。
Useful links:
話題 waa6 tai4 (N) topic of conversation
要求 jiu1 kau4 (N/V) requirement; to require
身份 san1 fan2 (N) identity
唐詩 tong4 si1 (N) Tang poems
複雜 fuk1 zaap6 (ADJ) complicated
關乎 gwaan1 fu4 (ADJ) concerning, related to
接軌 zip3 gwai2 (VO) to connect
規則 kwai1 zak1 (N) regulation, rule
用語 jung6 jyu5 (N) expression
放大 fong3 daai6 (VC) to magnify
縮細 suk1 sai3 (VC) to reduce, to shrink
海外 hoi2 ngoi6 (ADJ/N) overseas
群體 kwan4 tai2 (N) community
無聊 mou4 liu4 (ADJ) meaningless, boring
場合 coeng4 hap6 (N) occasion
機會率 gei1 wui6 leot2 (N) probability
投放 tau4 fong3 (V) to invest, to put in
認到 jing6 dou2 (V) to recognize
輸出 syu1 ceot1 (V/N) to output; output
輸入法 syu1 jap6 faat3 (N) input method
假設 gaa2 cit3 (V/N) to assume; assumption
喪失 song3 sat1 (V) to lose
經歷 ging1 lik6 (N/V) experience; to experience
語感 jyu5 gam2 (N) sense of language, nuance
牽涉 hin1 sip3 (V) to involve
俗語 zuk6 jyu5 (N) common saying
俚語 lei5 jyu5 (N) slang
策略 caak3 loek6 (N) strategy
咁滯 gam3 zai6 (ADV) almost, nearly
周邊 zau1 bin1 (N) periphery
告示牌 gou3 si6 paai2 (N) billboard, signage
缺乏 kyut3 fat6 (ADJ/V) lacking/missing; to lack/miss
官僚 gun1 liu4 (N/ADJ) bureaucracy; bureaucratic
密切 mat6 cit3 (ADJ) close, intimate
白讀 baak6 duk6 (N) colloquial reading
文讀 man4 duk6 (N) literary reading
明顯 ming4 hin2 (ADJ) obvious
邋遢 laat6 taat3 (ADJ) dirty
光譜 gwong1 pou2 (N) spectrum
永遠 wing5 jyun5 (ADV/ADJ) always, forever
極端 gik6 dyun1 (ADJ) extreme
逐字稿 zuk6 zi6 gou2 (N) transcript
文體 man4 tai2 (N) writing style
文言文 man4 jin4 man2 (N) classical Chinese
誇張 kwaa1 zoeng1 (ADJ/N) out-of-proportion; exaggeration
層次 cang4 ci3 (N) level
理論 lei5 leon6 (N) theory
為準 wai4 zeon2 (EXP) on the basis of…
終極 zung1 gik6 (ADJ) ultimate
考官 haau2 gun1 (N) examiner
運用 wan6 jung6 (V) to apply, to use
能力 nang4 lik6 (N) ability
程度 cing4 dou6 (N) extent
官話 gun1 waa2 (N) Mandarin, official language
抽象 cau1 zoeng6 (ADJ) abstract
傳道人 cyun4 dou6 jan4 (N) evangelist
轉換 zyun3 wun6 (V) to convert
混合體 wan6 hap6 tai2 (N) hybrid
浸出嚟 zam3 ceot1 lai4 (EXP) result from emersion
詞彙庫 ci4 wui6 fu3 (N) corpus
後天 hau6 tin1 (ADJ) acquired
平均 ping4 gwan1 (ADJ) even
表達 biu2 daat6 (V/N) to express; expression
界定 gaai3 ding6 (V) to define
取決 ceoi2 kyut3 (V) to depend on
強迫 koeng4 bik1 (V) to force
推介 teoi1 gaai3 (N/V) recommendation; to recommend
發現 faat3 jin6 (V) to discover
新大陸 san1 daai6 luk6 (N) new continent
共享 gung6 hoeng2 (V) to share
之餘 zi1 jyu4 (EXP) in addition to
補充 bou2 cung1 (V) to supplement
運作 wan6 zok3 (V) to operate
聲音檔 sing1 jam1 dong2 (N) sound file
模型 mou4 jing4 (N) model
可圈可點 ho2 hyun1 ho2 dim2 (EXP) doubtful, remarkable
成語 sing4 jyu5 (N) idiom
俾人鬧 bei2 jan4 naau6 (V) to be scolded by someone
思源 si1 jyun4 (EXP) considering the source
保留 bou2 lau4 (N/V) reservation; to preserve
參考 caam1 haau2 (V) to reference
限制 han6 zai3 (N/V) limitation; to restrict
瀏覽器 lau4 laam5 hei3 (N) browser
注射 zyu3 se6 (V/N) to inject; injection
變調 bin3 diu6 (N/VO) tone change; to change tone
出貓 ceot1 maau1 (EXP/VO) to cheat
鼓勵 gu2 lai6 (V/N) to encourage; encouragement
容許 jung4 heoi2 (V) to allow
直情 zik6 cing4 (ADV) outright
慳 haan1 (V) to save (energy/money/time)
少數民族 siu2 sou3 man4 zuk6 (N) ethnic minority
共通點 gung6 tung1 dim2 (N) commonality
合時 hap6 si4 (ADJ) timely
插（句）嘴 caap3 (geoi3) zeoi2 (VO) interrupt (lit. insert mouth)
心願 sam1 jyun6 (N) wish
層面 cang4 min2 (N) aspect
偽 ngai6 (ADJ) pseudo
夾雜 gaap3 zaap6 (ADJ) mixed
種類 zung2 leoi6 (N) category
例句 lai6 geoi3 (N) sample sentence
得意 dak1 ji3 (ADJ) cute, proud
背後 bui3 hau6 (ADJ) at the back, unseen
團隊 tyun4 deoi2 (N) team
愛好者 ngoi3 hou3 ze2 (N) aficionado, enthusiast
學術 hok6 seot6 (ADJ/N) academic; academia
研究 jin4 gau3 (N) research
軍團 gwan1 tyun4 (N) army
評級 ping4 kap1 (N) rating
兜... 圈 dau1… hyun1 (VO) to circle around, to encircle
自然 zi6 jin4 (ADV/ADJ/N) naturally; natural; nature
而言 ji4 jin4 (V) to speak of (formal)
埋尾 maai4 mei5 (VO) to wrap up
特登 dak6 dang1 (ADV) on purpose
剷走 caan2 zau2 (VC) to remove
儀式 ji4 sik1 (N) ceremony, ritual
私底下 si1 dai2 haa6 (EXP) in private
夾 gaap3 (V) to collaborate, to jam
剪埋 zin2 maai4 (VC) to cut, to edit
保持 bou2 ci4 (V) to keep, to maintain
聯絡 lyun4 lok3 (N/V) contact; to contact
辛苦 san1 fu2 (V/ADJ) to work hard; exhausted
Raymond: 我哋其實係唔係都仲有一兩個話題1想討論下嘅呢? Cameron 你好似有個話題想同我哋討論嘅，係唔係呢？
(We still have two topics that we want to discuss, right? Cameron, it seems you have a topic you want to discuss, right?)
Israel: 唔一定嘅。
Israel: 唔一定嘅。
(Not necessarily.)
Cameron: 其實我覺得你 Israel 就啱啱分享嘅係好啱嘅，好似你啱啱講嘅有啲人覺得，我覺得你雖然你識講廣東話話，但係你一定要識寫字或者睇字。但係呢個係唔係一個傳統啲嘅睇法呢? 因為其實我對你哋嘅睇法就好好奇，因為你哋自己就細路仔嘅時候都有呢個要求2，係唔係就係學字。但係可能有啲就係 Raymond 嘅學生，佢哋因為冇呢個學字嘅背景，佢哋同字之間嘅關係唔一樣，佢哋覺得呢個就係口語嘅廣東話，都算係佢哋就係佢哋身份3之一部分咩咩嘢，係呀係呀。但係都有啲人如果佢哋就係細路仔嗰陣時學睇字、學就係詩歌特別係唐詩4，佢哋可能會覺得其實呢啲漢字算係廣東話一個好重要嘅部分，所以就你哋係點睇嘅? (Actually, I think that what Israel just shared is quite true. As you said, some people think, “I think even though you know how to speak Cantonese, you still need to know how to write or read Chinese characters. But isn’t this a rather traditional way of looking at it? I’m really curious about what you guys think, because this was required of you when you were a kid, you had to learn characters, right? But maybe with some of Raymond’s students, because they don’t have a background of learning characters, their relationship with characters is the same. They just think that it’s spoken Cantonese and is part of their identity or something, right? But then there are others who maybe learned characters as a child, as well as poetry like from the Tang dynasty, and they think that Chinese characters are a very important part of Cantonese. So what do you all think?)
Israel: 我覺得呢個問題要分開兩層嘅，就係首先學廣東話需唔需要識寫廣東話？之後其次就係需唔需要識寫書面語？因為後者嗰個問題係更加複雜5嘅，因為係關乎6呢啲唔同嘅語言嘅 dynamic 噉樣啦。即係可能你覺得需要同呢個書寫傳統去到接軌7等等。如果你問我噉我會鼓勵嗰啲人學寫廣東話囉。
(I think you need to break this question into two parts: first, when studying Cantonese, do you need to learn how to write [colloquial] Cantonese? And second, do you need to be able to write formal written Chinese? The latter question is more complicated, as it is related to the dynamic between languages. Perhaps you think that there needs to be an integration with the written tradition, or something like that. If you ask me, then I’ll encourage people to study Cantonese.)
因為一嚟唔係一個完全唔同嘅語言啦，因為你學書面語係再學多另一個 grammar 噉囉，學好多唔同嘅規則8同埋用語9，噉就太難喇。但係我覺得我哋而家好多人都係會寫廣東話，所以如果識寫會好啲。噉但係當然我譬如我有啲學生嘅感覺都係識講就夠喇，因為好多時候始終放大10嚟睇嘅話... 唔係放大應該縮細11... 大圍噉睇嘅話其實多數人都淨係講廣東話嘅，尤其是喺呢啲海外12群體13啦，噉即係我哋身處嘅海外群體啦，所以變咗又實際上係冇咩必要嘅。
(On the one hand, [written Cantonese] is not an entirely different language, whereas with formal written Chinese you have to learn a different grammar with different rules and lexicon, and that’s too difficult. But I think many people write in Cantonese these days, so if you know how to write in Cantonese, then that’s better. But I also have some students who think that knowing how to speak is enough, because when you zoom out—not “zoom out,” but rather “zoom in”—in the grand scale, most people only speak Cantonese, especially in overseas circles. As people in the overseas community, then it’s because there isn’t that need [to learn to read and write].)
Kenneth: 我諗呢樣嘢又可以再分多一層啦，即係識睇同識寫嘅分別。因為有時候我都喺度諗緊其實我上次，即係... 因為我本身係一個好鍾意寫字嘅人嚟嘅。我會平時無無聊14聊喺度聽嘢我就會寫噉樣啦。噉但係我發覺其實我喺呢啲場合15之外，其實我真係喺出面個人平時要做嘢嘅時候，我真係要寫中文字嘅機會率16其實唔係真係噉高。噉你作為一個學習者嘅時候，當你要用好多時間投放17喺你學點樣啲筆順1呀，點樣寫靚啲字呀，噉樣嘅時候，即係我係認到18啲字同埋我寫到啲字出嚟，其實又係真係好唔同嘅嘢嚟㗎嘛。
(I think there’s still yet another layer, which is the difference between being able to write and being able to read. Sometimes I still think about before—I’m actually someone who naturally really loves to write characters. Often, I’ll just listen to something and write with no specific purpose. However, beyond that situation, when I have to do things in a more official capacity, the chances of me needing to write Chinese characters aren’t very high. But as a student, when you need to invest so much time in stroke order and how to make characters pretty, just being able to recognize some characters and write out some others is a very different thing, isn’t it?)
Samuel: 又好似係喎。
(So it would seem.)
Kenneth: 我喺度諗緊係唔係真係要全部字都識寫先至叫 OK 呢，我先至叫學咗呢？定係我識睇就得呢？
(Here I wonder if I really need to have learned to write all the characters in order to be able to say that I’ve learned them… Or is it enough to just be able to read them?)
Samuel: 你噉樣講呢，現代社會呢，寫字，你係講緊真係用手寫吖嘛。我係諗，淨係總之輸出19啲字出嚟就叫做寫字，噉所以其實打字，喺你即係你所講嘅寫字同打字係兩樣嘢嚟嘅。噉如果我諗，如果有輸入法20呢樣嘢，假設21佢用一啲拼音類嘅輸入法啦，噉其實佢係真係可以唔需要識得寫啲字出嚟，佢直接打可能打啲音出嚟，佢認得啲字佢識睇吖嘛，所以佢咪認得嗰啲邊啲字係啱嘅，佢就直接揀嗰個字囉。噉呢個情況其實，佢可以做到一個普通嘅母語者做到嘅嘢囉，即係佢唔會喪失22咗某一啲經歷23，或者冇咗某啲機會，因為佢唔識真係用手寫。
(So what you’re saying is that in contemporary society, writing is really writing by hand. What I think is that as long as you are “outputting” characters, it’s “writing,” but according to what you just said, writing and typing are two different things. If I think about it, in terms of input methods, if one uses a romanization input method, then one doesn’t necessarily need to know how to write characters—one just types out the sounds and only recognizes the characters they know how to read, so as long as he knows which character is correct, he picks that one. In this case, one can do what a normal first-language speaker of Cantonese can do, and they won’t have necessarily lost out on certain experiences or opportunities just because they can’t handwrite.)
Raymond: 你帶出咗一個好... 係啦你咁多位都提出咗仲有一個，仲有好多層次我又覺得。你去睇呢，你認字同埋你理解呢又係兩個 level 嘅嘢嚟嘅。噉呀，之前 Cameron 有提出啦，即係問咩叫語感24係咪？噉呢我好多學生就係呢，佢哋認得每一粒字，佢哋讀晒出嚟嘅喇，但係佢哋都係話唔明嘅。噉所以呢個又牽涉25到譬如佢語言裡面個文化、佢啲知識呀、啲俗語26呀、啲俚語27呀、嗰啲呢，佢哋又係一個策略28。
(You brought up a very good…I think what you all brought up has a lot of layers to it. See, being able to recognize a character and understand its meaning are two different “levels.” Earlier, Cameron brought up this concept of “language sense,” right? For many of my students, they recognize every character and can read it out loud, but they still say that they don’t understand it. This brings into question issues of culture embedded in language, as well as knowledge, colloquialisms, slang, things like that—they’re also a strategy.)
Samuel: 呢個都係一個 meme，嗰啲字我分開睇得明，擺埋一齊我就睇唔明。
(It’s also like a “meme” in that I can understand the characters when they are separate, but when you bring them together I don’t understand them.”)
Cameron: 係啊。
(Yes.)
Raymond: 就算我哋講母語者，我哋好多時候都話對方我粒粒字都聽得明，
但係我都唔知道佢喺度講緊咩。
(For us native speakers, we even have instances where we say we comprehend every individual word that the other party says but we don’t grasp their meaning.)
Israel: 英文經常係噉囉。
(English is often like this.)
Samuel: 你啱啱講過，你話識寫粵文啦我哋叫，即係廣東話嘅所謂口語寫出嚟，同埋識書面語兩個層次吖嘛。我聽過有一個朋友嘅講法就係，佢都係學習者嚟嘅，噉佢就係基本上你聽，你同佢傾偈呢你以為佢係香港人咁滯29㗎喇。噉但係佢嗰個睇法就係佢覺得識書面語係作為一個粵語母語者嘅 competence 嘅其中一部分。即係話如果你要做到一個母語者嘅程度，你就要識埋書面語你先可以睇得明所有母語者明嘅嘢囉。因為你母語者你都係要成日睇好多可能啲中文書呀，或者周邊30其實啲廣告呀，就算電視嘅字幕呀，好多嘢都係用書面語寫嘅，啲告示牌31都係用書面語寫嘅。如果你唔識，噉可能你去咗香港，然之後你見到牌你完全唔知道睇乜噉樣，你要睇英文。即係好似真係缺乏32咗啲嘢噉樣。
(But as you just said, being able to write Cantonese—so-called written vernacular Cantonese—and being able to write written Chinese [i.e. Standard Written Chinese] are two different levels. I’ve heard one of my friends say—they’re also a student [of Cantonese], but if you heard them or spoke with them, you’d think they were nearly a Hongkonger—their perspective is that knowing Standard Written Chinese is one of the competences of a Cantonese native speaker. That is to say, if you want to achieve the level of a native speaker, then you need to know Standard Written Chinese in order to be able to read everything a native speaker can understand. That’s because as a native speaker, you frequently need to read many Chinese books or ads around you, as well as TV subtitles—lots of things use Standard Written Chinese, even some billboards. If you don’t know how to read it, then if you go to Hong Kong and see some signs that you don’t get at all, then you need to look at the English. It really seems like you’re lacking something.)
Raymond: Cameron 點睇呢？
(What do you think Cameron?)
Samuel: 真係好想知你點睇。
(I’m really curious what you think.)
Cameron: 但我覺得呢個唔淨係粵語有嘅，因為我其實我有一個朋友佢係台灣人，要申請咩就係用咩咩資料就係政府有嘅資料，所以佢有寫一封信就講我想睇呢啲嘢。但係喺台灣有好特別嘅就係官僚33嘅語言，其實都算係書面語，或者好正式嘅書面語。但係佢自己一個人唔識寫噉樣嘅嘢，所以好多人覺得其實就係因為佢講嘅其實就係普通話或者國語，所以佢哋覺得國語冇呢個問題，就係國語嘅，雖然有書面語同口語嘅，但係佢哋嘅關係就係密切34啲，但係我覺得呢個同一個就係同 genre 有關係，就係你寫嘅係咩樣嘢呀，係關於信或者係嗰個就係小說、係字幕、係咩嘢。
(I don’t think this is exclusive to Cantonese, as I have a Taiwanese friend who needed to apply for some sort of government documents and needed to write a letter saying he wanted to see them. However, Taiwan has a very special bureaucratic language that also counts as written language, or “formal” written language. However, he didn’t know how to write this sort of thing himself. Many people might think that because he speaks Mandarin, then Mandarin wouldn’t have this sort of problem. Even though Mandarin has written and spoken language, the relationship between the two is closer [than in the case of Cantonese], but I think this is also related to “genre,” like what sort of thing you are writing, like a letter or novel or subtitles.)
所以我覺得呢個問題其實唔係一個好易定義嘅嘢。另一個方面其實我都會諗到就係台語嘅問題，因為台語其實有好特別嘅嗰個就係每一個字嘅讀音有嗰個白讀35同文讀36，呢個好似就係 on‘yomi （音読み/おんよみ）同 kun‘yomi （訓読み/くんよみ）咁犀利。雖然就係粵語同普通話之前有差唔多嘅嘢，但係冇咁多字有咁明顯37嘅分別。但係台語非常之明顯。所以有啲人佢哋寫小說嘅時候，如果係嗰個文讀佢哋用漢字，如果係白讀嘅話，佢哋用泰羅去佢哋嘅拼音。係呀，所以你睇嘅時候，好多人覺得好邋遢38，點解有 romanization 同漢字一齊用嘅？但係呢個係另一個就係、就係諗法、係咪？就係你... 你點處理呢個就係分別，咩算係書面語、咩算係口語。呢個係一個好、唔係粵語淨係有嘅問題呀。
(So I don’t think this problem is very easy to define. Another thing that I think about in this regard is Taiwanese, as every character has both literary and colloquial readings, similar to onyomi and kunyomi [in Japanese]. Although Cantonese and Mandarin previously had similar dynamics, not as many characters [now] have such a clear distinction. However, it’s very apparent in Taiwanese. So when some people write novels [in Taiwanese], if they want to evoke the literary reading they will write the Chinese character, but if they want to evoke the colloquial reading, they’ll write in romanization. Yeah, so when you’re reading, some people think it looks rather messy, as why would you use Chinese characters and romanization together? But another aspect of it, another way of thinking, is… How should you handle this distinction between written and spoken language [or literary and vernacular]? This is an issue that extends beyond Cantonese.)
Israel: 有時可能係，真係一個光譜39嚟嘅。即係就算我哋，可能廣東話會容易啲分到呀，因為有啲字係永遠40書面語唔會用嘅，即係一個極端41就係我哋直接，我哋逐字稿421噉樣寫法啦，另一個極端就係我哋中學嗰陣時學嗰啲正式文體43呢，寫到好似文言文44噉樣嗰啲呢。
(Sometimes maybe it’s a spectrum. In our case, perhaps it’s easier to distinguish with Cantonese, as some characters will never be used in literary language. On one extreme there’s what we would write in a direct transcript, and on the other end is the standard written Chinese we learned in primary school, similar to what’s in Classical Chinese.)
Kenneth: 即係唔可以寫士多啤梨。
(Like you can’t write si-do-bei-lei. [The colloquial Cantonese term for “strawberry,” which can be distinguished from the Standard Written Chinese term 草莓.)
Israel: 呢個係另一回事喎，呢個係...
(This is another matter, this is…)
Samuel: 有啲誇張45。
(There’s a bit of an exaggeration…)
Israel: 士多啤梨，係囉，好似係中間喎。好似係廣東話...
(Si-do-bei-lei, yes, it’s sort of in the middle. It seems to be Cantonese…)
Samuel: 即係我諗嘅，我諗嘅書面語係嗰啲即係好多“的的了了”嗰啲書面語囉。即係你又可以話粵文嘅書面語又係另一個層次46，可能正式少少嘅講嘢。但係我所講嘅書面語係大部分香港人所講嘅現代標準中文嗰種書面語，即係作為一個廣東話嘅母語者，就算你住喺香港好，你住喺廣東都好，你都係要識睇書面語呢樣㗎嘛，佢係你作為一個粵語母語者嘅生活係一定會見到嘅。所以如果你唔識嗰樣嘢，你算唔算係同一個母語者同一個程度。就算你嘅粵語、粵文係同一個程度嘅話。
(What I think is that written Chinese uses a lot of dik1 dik1 liu5 liu5. You could say that written Cantonese is yet another level, slightly less formal. But the sort of written language that I’m talking about is what Hongkongers might now call Standard Written Chinese. It’s what, as a Cantonese native speaker living in Hong kong or Guangdong, you would still need to know how to read, what you would certainly see in the course of your life as a native speaker. If you don’t know how to read it, then does that count as at the same level [of proficiency] as a native speaker? Are your spoken and written Cantonese the same level?)
Israel: 但係我想講呢，“的的了了”呢啲即係好明顯係書面語先有嘅嘢，其實呢啲係容易學嘅喎：“的”咪即係“嘅”囉、“了”咪即係... 我唔知呀“咗”囉。即係呢啲係唔難嘅。噉但係反而係其他，一啲其他用語，譬如“踢波”同“足球”噉樣呢個分別，呢啲嘢反而先係難學因為你學緊係另一套嘅詞彙喎。
(However, I’d like to say that dik1 dik1 liu5 liu5 are very clearly written language, this is easy enough to learn. Like dik1 is just ge3, liu5 is jus zo2. This isn’t difficult. But as for other vocabulary, like the difference between tek3 bo1 [spoken Cantonese term for soccer/football] and zuk1 kau4 [written Chinese for soccer/football], these are harder to learn, as you have to learn an entirely different term.)
Samuel: 另一個系統喇已經，有時嗰個句式都可以唔同。
(It’s already a different system, as even the sentence patterns can be different.)
Raymond: 我又噉睇喎，即係從語言嘅水平呢，或者能力嗰個，我哋有分級㗎嘛，即係我哋有譬如口語水平考試呢，我哋而家其中一個講法就係話呢母語者呢唔一定係最高嘅，即係而家喺語言教學上面佢哋甚至有一派理論47，佢哋好反呢個母語者為準48嘅理論，呢個 anti-nativism 呀噉樣，唔係講母語者。
(I also look at it from this perspective, as in terms of language level or proficiency, we have different levels, such as oral proficiency tests [as opposed to overall proficiency tests]. One thing we say is that “native speaker” is not necessarily the highest [level], and in language pedagogy there’s even a theory that strongly opposes the idea of making “native speaker” the standard. It’s a sort of “anti-nativism,” so not native speakers.)
Isreal: Native-speakerism 好似。
(It seems to be “native speakerism.”)
Raymond: 係喇 native speakerism 噉樣啦，唔係一定係終極49嘅標準嚟嘅。
因為你母語者都可能係因為佢背景呀、教育水平呀，未必係講到啲最難、
最深嘅嘢。噉所以呢我而家又係另一個身份就係一個所謂嘅口試嘅考官50呢，噉我哋真係睇嗰個學習者佢運用51嗰個語言嘅能力52呀、程度53呀，佢如果最高嘅嗰啲就係你唔同嘅我哋所謂頭先 Cameron 提到 genre 、register 呀有幾正式用幾多官話54、用幾多難嘅嗰啲詞彙噉樣。嗰個轉換先至係最高層次。頭先你講嗰啲譬如口語書面語基本嘅轉換呢，嗰啲“的的了了”嗰啲呢，正正係我哋而家普通話背景嗰啲初學者佢哋要面對嘅問題嚟嘅，噉但係佢哋嘅水平可能都係中間，即係應付日常生活嗰啲需要囉。噉但係唔係話譬如比如去到文學呀嗰個水平呀，或者係講啲好抽象55呀、好複雜嘅嘢。噉所以呢個裏面又牽涉到都即係其實係好多層次囉我覺得。
(Yes, “native speakerism”, it’s not necessarily the tip of the spectrum. For instance, perhaps because of their background or education level, they can’t talk about the deepest or most difficult topics. And so now another identity is the so-called oral proficiency examiner, we’ll really look at a student’s ability to utilize different vocabulary to different degrees, and if they’re at the highest level they’ll use different words, like what Cameron said earlier about “genre” or “register,” with formal official language or various difficult terms. Those sorts of changes [of more complex/context-appropriate vocabulary] happen at the highest level [of proficiency]. As for what you brought up earlier regarding spoken and written language, those dik1 dik1 liu5 liu5, that’s an issue that our beginners coming from Mandarin-speaking backgrounds have to deal with, though their level might also be intermediate to the extent that they can handle daily life. It's not quite at the level of being able to tackle literature or abstract things, really complicated stuff, but I think it drags in a lot of other aspects.)
Israel: 你令我諗起我細個喺教會嘅時候呢，有個傳道人56呢佢讀聖經呢係會轉換57晒嗰啲“的的了了”嘅。噉但係其他就唔轉換囉，所以有個好有趣嘅混合體58噉樣，即係佢會講“嘅”噉樣。
(You made me think of when I was little in church and the liturgist was reading aloud from the Bible but switching all those dik1 dik1 liu5 liu5 [for colloquial Cantonese equivalents]. However, they didn’t switch everything, so it was a very interesting mix of speech registers, like saying ge3.)
Samuel: 我有時自己讀啲新聞出嚟都會，都會噉樣個喎。
(I sometimes do this when I read out the news).
Raymond: 係呀。
(Yeah.)
Israel: 係咪呀？
(Right?)
Samuel: 個腦自己就會翻譯咗廣東話好似。
(It’s like the brain translates into Cantonese on its own.)
Raymond: 但係呢個我哋又從來冇被教過個喎。噉所以我哋可能係真係浸出嚟59嘅，但係對於學習者呢，而家我哋就要教佢哋嗰啲策略喇，即係的、了呀、你們、我們嗰啲轉法呢，而家就係我哋花最多時間去幫嗰啲普通話嘅學習者去學囉。
(But no one taught us to do this. It came from immersion, but for students [of Cantonese], we have to teach them strategies, like hai6, liu5, nei5 mun4, ngo5 mun4, those all have a way of changing, and now we spend the most amount of time teaching Mandarin speakers [Cantonese].)
Israel: 你講嘅嗰啲語言嘅水平嘅問題呢，我就聽人講 N 係即係 Native，可能係介乎 C1 同 C2 中間，噉因為 C2 就會係一個受咗教育嘅母語者嗰個水平
。噉但係我都聽過另一個講法，我都支持呢個講法嘅就係 N 係同 ABC 呢啲水平完全分開嘅另一樣嘢嚟嘅，因為佢哋係會有個好自然嘅語感，噉但係佢哋嘅詞彙庫60，佢哋可以用到咩類型嘅語言，係真係完全係後天61嘅囉，即係完全係喺學校學返嚟嘅。噉所以好難同 ABC 呢啲即係自己學嘅人嚟到比較囉。
(Regarding the language proficiency levels that you brought up earlier, I’ve heard that “N” corresponds with “native” but falls between C1 and C2, as C2 represents a native speaker who has also received formal education. However, I’ve also heard another view that I support, which is that N and the “ABC” levels should be completely separated, because native speakers have a very natural sense of language, with much broader vocabulary and registers, it’s all acquired, with much of it coming from school. So it’s very hard for second-language learners to learn to this level.)
Samuel: 即係佢嗰個能力唔會係咁平均62嘅可能。
(Their proficiency might be a bit uneven.)
Israel: 係喇，係喇，係喇。即係佢會某啲嘢就好叻，其他嘢就唔可以噉比較。
(Yes, yes, yes. They’ll be really good with some topics, but not so with others.)
Samuel: 係喇。一個非母語者可能佢會比較平均噉樣慢慢去進步啦。但係就算你講 heritage speaker 係一啲一啲講屋企講廣東話嘅可能美國人、加拿大人之類，可能佢嘅發音係都幾準嘅，可能佢嘅文法係幾好嘅，但係就係詞彙量唔夠囉，就係好多嘢都唔識表達63，因為就係教育都係用英文嘅，或者總之唔係用佢自己嘅所謂母語。
(Yeah. A non-native speaker might advance more slowly at an equal rate. But as for heritage speakers who speak Cantonese at home in America or Canada, their pronunciation might be very good, as well as their grammar, but their vocabulary is inadequate, so there’s a lot of stuff that they can’t articulate, as their education is in English or they don’t really use their so-called “mother tongue.”)
Raymond: 係啊，同埋你 N 嗰個定義囉。係啦，你太好喇，你啱啱提出 heritage speakers, 我問過一啲 heritage speakers, 佢哋會認為自己係 native speakers 嘅。噉你，即係你點樣去界定64呢？噉所以呢你講 ABC 嗰個分層呢，係歐洲嗰個 framework 嚟嘅。噉美國北美呢度都有叫 ACTFL 啦，噉佢係 12345 嘅，噉佢就...
(Yeah, and then there’s the definition of your “N.” Yeah, you’re right, what you just said about “heritage speakers,” I’ve asked some heritage speakers whether they think of themselves as “native speakers”. Where do you draw the line? Like when you talk about the ABC levels, the European language framework. In the US and North America they have ACTFL, and they have 12345, and they…)
Israel: 係？未聽過嘅？
(Really? I never heard of that.)
Raymond: 係啊，你未聽過呀？噉就冇用 N 啦，即係 N 係唔係一個正式去取決65佢嗰個水平。嗯... 好，好玩。噉我哋不如亦都爭取時間啦。如果你哋有即係唔又唔強迫66嘅，即係如果你有諗到有咩可以推介67，特別係畀學習者、語言、或者粵語學習者、覺得有用嘅，或者你哋用啲咩資源可以分享一下。噉我就即刻分享一個先啦。噉我其實有 share 畀過 Cameron 睇嘅。我係最近又係好似發現68新大陸69咁樣。其實呢個係阿擇兄，劉澤明話畀我聽嘅，就係呢一個叫做 Refold 嘅一個資源。其實我諗你哋知呀係咪？
(Yeah, you never heard of it? They don’t use “N,” as “N” doesn’t officially correlate with their levels. Wow… this is all very fun. However, we still need to remain conscious of time. As long as you’re not feeling forced, why don’t you share a recommendation for a resource for helping general language learners or students of Cantonese? I can share first. I’ve actually already shared it with Cameron. It’s like I discovered a new continent recently. This is something A-Chaak, Lau Chaakming told me about [link to his episode]. It’s called “Refold,” do you know about it?)
Kenneth: 哦。係呀？
(Oh. Really?)
Israel: 阿擇識 Refold 㗎？
(A-Chaak knows about Refold?)
Raymond: 係啊，佢呢，因為我問過佢譬如我哋，我哋學生佢哋拍片呢要整字幕喎，噉呢佢哋諗緊有冇啲係現成嘅技術可以令到佢哋做字幕係比較容易啲嘅。我哋知道網上有個叫做 Subanana 嘅字幕撚呢個嘅技術啦。
(Yeah, our students have to make videos with correct subtitles and I asked him if he knew of any tricks for easily creating subtitles. I knew there was something called “Subanana.”)
Samuel: 我哋都用過。
(I’ve also used it.)
Israel: 嘗試過。
(I’ve tried it.)
Raymond: 噉呢，但係佢話呢佢就 refer 我叫我睇吓 Refold 上面會唔會有啦。噉呢其實係 Refold 呢基本上就係一個，其中一個部分呢就係一個共享70嘅資源，有一個 shared Google Doc 噉呀大家其實可以上去睇，大家分享嗰個有啲咩嗰個語言嘅資源之餘71呢，又有少少似維基百科噉樣你自己都可以擺上去嘅。其實呢個係一個開放嘅一個 list。噉呀所以我上去睇，嘩，都睇到唔少嘢。不過呢我哋亦都可以再補充72啦，包括呢佢冇我哋個 podcast 啦，我諗住會加返我哋個播客節目上去。所以呢個我覺得可以畀學習者睇吓。
(Well, he referred me to Refold to see if they might have something there. Essentially, Refold is just a share resource, a shared Google Doc that everyone can go look at and also share additional resources. It’s similar to putting something on Wikipedia. It’s basically an open list. So I went and looked, and wow, they had quite a lot. But we can also supplement it with some stuff, like our podcast, I think I’ll add our program. That way we can show it to students.)
Israel: 你講起 Subanana 呢就令我諗起我可以介紹吓呢個絮言狂想嘅一啲
BTS 嚟嘅。即係我哋點樣運作73嘅呢？噉因為我哋逐字稿呢就唔係完全 100% 自己打出嚟嘅。噉我哋就用一個工具啦叫做 PY transcriber。PY as in Python 啦。
(When you mentioned Subanana, it made me think of some “behind the scenes” things from our podcast [seoi6 jin4 kwong4 soeng2]. How do we handle it? Our transcript is not just us typing it all out. We use a tool called PY transcriber. “PY” as in “Python.”)
Samuel: Py transcriber。
Israel: Py transcriber。噉佢係用一個，某一個 Google 嘅 API，噉就幫我哋
將啲聲音檔74變成文字啦。噉最神奇嘅地方就係佢有一個廣東話嘅語言模型75嘅。噉係唔係一個好成功嘅 transcriber 呢？我就覺得可圈可點76啦。係唔係噉用㗎呢個成語77？我都唔知點用。
(PY transcriber. It uses a certain Google API and helps you turn a sound file into text. Most miraculous is that it also has a Cantonese language model. Now is it a very successful transcriber? I think it’s remarkable–is that how you use that idiom? [referring to ho2 hyun1 ho2 dim2] I don’t even know how to use it.)
Samuel: 哪，會俾人鬧78嘅噉樣講，因為可圈可點...
(Well, you’re going to get scolded for using it like that, because ho2 hyun1 ho2 dim2…)
Israel: 會俾人鬧㗎？
(I’ll be scolded?)
Samuel: 正本意係好嘢嚟嘅。
(It essentially has a positive meaning.)
Israel: 噉唔講咯。
(Oh, then I wouldn’t say that.)
Samuel: 唔係有差嘅。係喇，係喇。
(It’s not too bad. Yeah, yeah.)
Raymond: 又變咗思源79喇。
(It’s become the “Word Origin” [the show segment of Rhapsody in Lingo] .)
Israel: 係唔係一個成功嘅 transcriber 呢？我覺得就我有啲保留80。因為好多時候佢出咗個文字出嚟呢我有一大半都要我改返嘅。噉但係如果學習者可能可以用嚟參考81吓，噉之後做一個出發點，噉囉，噉之後再睇吓有冇啲字係可以學到。
(So is it a successful transcriber? I have some reservations. A lot of the time, it drops some words, and half of the time I have to change them. But if language learners can use it as a reference, it can be a starting point, as there might be some words they can learn going forward.)
Samuel: 係呀。
(Yeah.)
Raymond: 太好喇呢個工具。我都搵緊一個比較好嘅 transcriber 其實。係啦我就算自己啲功課...
(This tool is really great. I’ve also found a relatively better transcriber, but it’s also part of my own work….)
Israel: 我哋試過幾個，呢個就係最好同埋最方便囉，相對上。
(We’ve tried quite a few, and this is the best and most convenient, comparatively speaking.)
Samuel: 係、係比較方便。可以一次過整成條聲囉，因為 Subanana 好似唔畀錢嘅話係每次唔知十分鐘定十五分鐘。
(Yeah, it’s relatively convenient. It can do an entire recording, whereas with Subanana it will only do ten or fifteen minutes for free.)
Israel: 十五分鐘。
(Fifteen minutes.)
Raymond: 係、係。
(Yeah, yeah.)
Samuel: 所以都有，有啲限制82。
(So there are some constraints.)
Raymond: 正喎。
(Cool.)
Samuel: 噉到我介紹呢我就想分享一個、一個瀏覽器83嘅 extension 就叫做 Inject 粵拼啦。噉佢就係顧名思義，佢就係將啲粵拼射入去、射入去你個網頁裏面。
(As for me, I’ll share a browser extension called “Inject Jyut6 Ping3.” As the name implies, it injects jyutping romanization into a webpage.
Israel: 射啲粵拼（笑）。
(“Injects some romanization.” (laughs))
Samuel: 打入去，注射84入去你個網頁，噉就係你用咗佢嘅話呢就會喺啲漢字上面見到啲粵拼囉。噉就好似你睇日文嗰啲 furikana 噉樣呢，上面有啲假名畀你知道點讀，就畀啲粵語嘅學習者啦，就算唔係學習者都好啦，你鍾意學粵拼嘅原來你想，你係一個學緊粵拼嘅母語者又得，噉就可以喺啲漢字上有啲粵拼啦，就可以兩樣一齊噉樣學喇。
(It types in, or injects it into a webpage, so if you use it you’ll see Jyutping romanization on top of Chinese characters. It’s like seeing furigana in Japanese, where there are some hiragana characters telling you how to pronounce kanji, so it can help people whether they’re a student of Cantonese or a native speaker trying to learn jyutping. Either way, you can see jyutping romanization above Chinese characters, so you can study both at once.)
Israel: 係呀，好，真係逐個字噉樣加上去，真係好似你開個維基百科出嚟呢
佢就會隻隻字上面都有一啲粵拼，唔係 100% 準確嘅都，因為有時一字多音。
(Yeah, great, it really goes right above the character, like if you open Wikipedia there is jyutping above every character. It’s not 100% accurate, as some characters have multiple readings.)
Raymond: 譬如變調85嗰啲佢未必處理到。
(And it might not be able to handle tone changes.)
Israel: 係喇，係喇。噉但係可以參考吓啦。
(Yeah, yeah. But you can use it as reference.)
Raymond: 我哋啲學生聽到會勁開心，跟住佢哋就會諗可唔可以用嚟出貓86呢噉樣？
(When our students hear about this, they’ll be very excited. They might even wonder if they can use it to cheat?)
Israel: 我哋喺度鼓勵87人做啲唔應該做嘅嘢喇。
(Here we are encouraging people to do things that they shouldn’t…)
Kenneth: 噉到我講一樣啦。因為... 我啱啱都喺度諗緊呢有啲咩可以即係介紹俾大家學習者呢，噉啱啱喺度講緊一個 Inject 粵拼，就係一個畀你讀廣東話嗰陣時時可以用嘅嘢，我就係諗緊當我打廣東話嘅時候我用啲咩呢，跟住我就發覺而家用緊喺電話上高嗰種輸入法呢而家真係好正嘅，就係 TypeDuck 喇。TypeDuck 即係 Type 就係打字嘅 Type 啦，跟住 Duck 就係一隻鴨嗰個 Duck。TypeDuck 噉樣啦。噉其實呢個都係一個我哋其中一個 friend 阿擇我哋啱啱講過阿劉澤明博士。
(Now it’s my turn. I was just thinking about what I wanted to share with students, and you brought up Inject Jyutping, which helps you when you’re reading Cantonese. What I’m thinking about helps me when I’m typing Cantonese, and I’ve found that the input method I am using on my phone is pretty awesome. It’s called TypeDuck. It’s “Type” as in “type words,” and “duck” as in the animal. So “TypeDuck.” This also comes from our friend A-Chaak, Dr. Lau Chaakming who we previously mentioned.)
Samuel: 都係阿澤。
(It’s also A-Chaak.)
Israel: 乜都係阿澤。
(Everything relates to A-Chaak.)
Samuel: 老是常出現。
(He always comes up.)
Cameron: 係呀，係呀。
(Yup, yup.)
Kenneth: 好多嘢都關佢事。噉呢個輸入法呢其實就係俾你打廣東話用粵拼打嘅。噉你可以打粵拼入去呢，就佢會出返，佢除咗會出一啲呢，廣東話有嘅詞語之外呢，佢都可以畀你揀去出一啲翻譯出嚟嘅。佢可以出英文啦、出印地語啦、出印尼話啦、尼泊爾話啦、好多唔同嘅話噉樣樣啦，噉所以你就可以喺打字嘅時候一路就查返嗰隻字，其實對應嗰個字係啲咩嘢。佢都可以容許88你用其它輸入法打例如話可能打倉頡呀，打速成呀、或者直情89打簡體中文呀都冇問題噉樣嘅。噉所以我就覺得如果我係一個學習者嘅話，我就可以即時噉樣查返嗰個字，其實對應返係咩詞語嘅時候我就會慳90咗好多時間囉。所以我覺得好好用呢個都。
(Lots of stuff is tied to him. Well, this input method lets you type in jyutping. You can type in jyutping, and besides outputting some words in Cantonese, it will also offer you some translations. It has English, Hindi, Bahasa, Nepalese, lots of different languages. So whenever you’re typing, you can also find the corresponding word. It also lets you use other input methods like Cangjie and Sucheng, or even simplified Chinese characters. So I think if you are a student, you’ll save a lot of time finding the right corresponding characters when typing. I think it’s really useful.)
Samuel: 係呀。佢呢個 APP 嗰個主要受眾除咗識英文嘅人仲有多數係香港嘅少數民族91囉，所以佢除咗英文之外有得揀印地語呀、有烏都語呀、有尼泊爾話呀、同埋有印尼文都有嘅我記得。
(Yeah. Besides English speakers, the main audiences for this app are various minorities in Hong Kong, so that’s why in addition to English, it also lets you choose Hindi, Urdu, Nepalese, or Bahasa, as I remember.)
Israel: 我都留意到呢啲，呢幾個語言好似係有呢一個共通點92，就係香港有呢啲噉嘅少數民族。
(I also noticed that the commonality among these languages is that they are used by ethnic minorities in Hong Kong.)
Samuel: 冇錯。
(That’s right.)
Raymond: 嘩，太好。你介紹得太合時93喇，我而家都喺度睇緊。因為... 我又插句嘴94啦。其實我我屋企係印尼華僑嚟嘅，我下一個心願95就係要學返好印尼話，呢個即刻要睇吓先。即刻睇吓點用先。
(Wow, that’s great. What you introduced to us is very fitting. I'm also looking at it right now, because… well, I’ll sidetrack a little. My family are actually overseas Chinese from Indonesia, and I really want to study Bahasa, and now I want to look at this. First I need to see how to use it.)
Samuel: 用呢個嚟打字就可以用廣東話學印尼文喇。
(When using this to type, you can study Bahasa through Cantonese.)
Israel: 嘩，不得了呀。最正就係可以噉樣㗎喇。
(Wow, amazing. This sort of thing is always the best.)
Raymond: 介紹埋畀屋企人先。
(I’ll introduce it to my family members.)
Samuel: 正呀。
(Great.)
Raymond: Cameron 係唔係到你呀？
(Cameron, it’s your turn, right?)
Cameron: 係啊、係啊。其實我今日想分享嘅係我今個禮拜同 Raymond 分享嘅，係嗰個 Hong Kong Code Mixing Dictionary 嗰個 APP。係啊，因為我覺得其實呢個同嗰個語感同母語者呢啲問題有關係嘅。呢個就係 Code Mixing Dictionary 所有嘅詞語都係，雖然係英文，但係雖然我係所謂嘅英文母語者有好多用法係我唔知道嘅。因為同埋佢佢另一個方面我覺得好犀利，
就係佢會將啲詞語就係分成嗰啲 native Hong Konger、overseas educated Hong Konger、working class Hong Konger、local student Hong Konger
就諗到就係社會每一個層面96就係佢哋係點用呢個詞語嘅。
(Yes, yes. Actually, what I am sharing today is something I shared with Raymond this week, that “Hong Kong Code Mixing Dictionary” app. Yeah, I think it’s related to this issue of the language instinct of native speakers. With this Code Mixing Dictionary, even though the words are English, there are many usages that I as a so-called native speaker of English don’t know. Another aspect that I think is pretty awesome is that it differentiates words among native Hong Kongers, overseas educated Hong Kongers, working class Hong Kongers, local student Hong Kongers, basically how every social stratum uses different words.)
Samuel: 好得意呀，我啱啱 download 咗呢，我見到有個搞笑嘅嗰個叫做
偽97 ABC 夾雜98…
(Very interesting, I just downloaded it, and I see there is some pretty funny fake ABC [American-born Chinese] mixing.)
Israel: 哈哈哈哈！
(Hahahaha!)
Samuel: 仲有好多，有真 ABC 夾雜，有好多唔同種類99會...
(There’s even more, like real ABC code-mixing, all sorts of types…)
Cameron: 甚至有例句100呀。
(It even has example sentences.)
Samuel: 好得意101呀。
(Really interesting.)
Israel: 咁癲？
(This crazy?)
Samuel: 好搞笑。
(It’s very funny.)
Raymond: 咁搞笑嘅？但係邊個發明嘅呢呢一個技術？或者佢背後102嘅團隊103係咩人？
(So funny? But who developed this? What’s the background of the group or person?)
Samuel: 好勁呀。
(Amazing.)
Israel: 同埋佢啲 stat 喺邊度嚟嘅呢？
(And where do their stats come from?)
Raymond: 佢有一個 FAQ 可以睇吓。
(They have an FAQ you can look at.)
Cameron: 係呀，佢哋好似係一個就係 language enthusiast group 就係愛好者104。
(Yeah, it seems they are a language enthusiast group, hobbyists.)
Raymond: 學術105研究106嚟嘅喎。
(They seem to be academics.)
Cameron: 聽見話佢哋，佢哋都喺香港有啲 meetups。
(I heard they also have meetups in Hong Kong.)
Samuel: 好犀利喎，有啲例句。
(It’s amazing, it even has example sentences.)
Kenneth: 犀利㗎喎真係。
(Really amazing.)
Israel: 呢個我哋都要推薦吓喎。
(We need to promote this as well.)
Kenneth: 有香港中英夾雜軍團107呀。
(There’s a Hong Kong Chinese-English Code-mixing “army.”)
Raymond: 我哋應該派阿靳尼去接觸吓呢個 Meetup Group
(We should send Kenny to visit their Meetup Group.)
Samuel: 嘩好正呀呢個 APP 真係。
(Wow, this app really is amazing.)
Kenneth: 係喎，可以去吓呢個。
(Yeah, this is worth checking out.)
Cameron: 係呀，呢個係我用學英文嘅 APP。
(Yeah, I use this app to study English.)
Raymond: 學港式英文嘅 APP
(An app for studying Hong Kong English.)
Israel: 學、學香港。
(Or study Hong Kong.)
Cameron: 係呀。
(Yeah.)
Israel: 其實唔容易㗎喎。我哋用啲方法係好，好 specific 嘅。即係你用得太多又好奇怪，噉用得太少又好奇怪，同埋點樣用都係。
(It’s actually not easy. The ways we use English are very, very specific. If you use it too much it’s strange, and if you use it too little it’s also strange, as well as the way you use it.)
Cameron: 係呀。唔可以隨便用英文嘅。
(Yeah. You can’t just randomly use English.)
Raymond: 嘩，如果係 Cameron 你可以講到呢個水平，佢扮到呢個偽 ABC，我會畀你最高呢個水平。即刻畀最高，最高評級108。
(Well, Cameron, if you can get to this level, then you would be like talking like a fake ABC, and I’d put you at the very highest level. I’d immediately give you the highest, highest rating.)
Israel: Cameron 扮 ABC 佢兜咗幾大個圈109。
(Cameron taking quite a great detour to play an ABC. )
Samuel: 扮偽 ABC。
(He can play at being fake ABC.)
Israel: 唔係扮真 ABC。扮扮 ABC。
(No, not impersonating a real ABC. Playing at playing an ABC.)
Raymond: 呢個我哋都未必做到。
(We might not even be able to do that.)
Israel: 我唔識㗎。
(I don’t know.)
Samuel: 係唔係？
(Right?)
Israel: 我自從做 Podcast 之後，我嘅廣東話都已經 shift 咗少少，係用多咗廣東話嘅係，自然110而言111。
(Ever since I started podcasting, my Cantonese has shifted a bit. I use more Cantonese and it comes naturally.)
Raymond: 係呀，所以唔係話母語者唔係乜都做到。我哋係唔係要埋尾112呀？
(Right, so just because you’re a native speaker doesn’t mean you can do it. Shouldn’t we wrap up?)
Samuel: 你哋係點樣完㗎？
(How do you guys usually end things?)
Raymond: 我哋又冇特別嘅，完就完。唔係講拜拜噉樣，唔知點樣。我都唔知我哋。
(Nothing special, we just end. We don’t say bye bye, I don’t know. I really don’t know.)
Cameron: 或者大家要...
(Or everyone can…)
Samuel: 各自，各自做 Outtro。
(We can each do our outros. [Referring to the two podcasts])
Cameron: 多謝...
(Thank you…)
Samuel: 可以 cut 唔到。
(You can not cut it.)
Cameron: 多謝晒我哋嘅嘉賓。
(Thank you to our guests.)
Raymond: 多謝晒所有嘉賓，多謝晒所有主持。
(Thanks to all our guests, thanks to all our hosts.)
Israel: 好吖，好啦。
(Great, great.)
Samuel: 好呀。多謝。
(Great. Thanks!)
Israel: 我哋 wrap up 之後，各自做 Outtro。
(After we wrap up, each can do their outro.)
Raymond: 好呀。好玩呀，多謝各位。
(Great. This was very fun, thanks everyone.)
Samuel: 好開心傾得。
(It was a pleasure to chat.)
Cameron: 好呀，多謝各位。
(Great, thanks everyone.)
Israel: 好開心我哋終於可以約到今次噉樣傾計。
(I’m glad we were finally able to schedule a chat for today.)
Kenneth: 真係好開心，我覺得今日。
(I’m quite happy about today.)
Raymond: 係啦，呢個係一大成就呀簡直係。
(Yes, it really has been a great achievement.)
Israel: 噉我同我哋嘅聽眾講啦，噉大家有興趣呢快啲去聽吓粵語白白講
Chatty Cantonese。
(To our listeners, I’ll say that if you’re interested, you should go listen to Chatty Cantonese.)
Samuel: 係呀。
(Yeah.)
Israel: 佢哋有，個名有兩個語言嘅，我哋只有廣東話嘅啫。
(They have two languages, we only have Cantonese…)
Samuel: 我哋特登113，本來有英文名，但係都...
(That was on purpose. We originally had an English name, but…)
Israel: 曾經有，但後來剷咗。
(We had one before, but we got rid of it.)
Raymond: 哦？唔係㗎喇？嗰個剷走114咗㗎喇？
(Huh? Really? You removed it?)
Samuel: 係呀，我哋 decolonize。
(Yeah, we decolonized.)
Raymond: 噉好呀？嘩！好勁呀！
(That well? Wow! Amazing!)
Cameron: 嘩！
(Wow!)
Israel: 咪，其實因為嗰個，唔係個 podcast 個名嚟嘅，嗰個係我個 channel，我個頻道同埋我個 blog 嘅名嚟嘅。只不過係為咗方便人搵呢就加埋落去。噉但係後來覺得我哋聽我哋節目嘅人都係識廣東話㗎啦，所以就淨係叫絮言狂想。
(It’s actually because it wasn’t the name of the podcast but rather a channel, my channel and blog. It was just convenient to put it there. However, later I found that most of our listeners know Cantonese, so we just called it seoi6 jin4 kwong4 soeng2.
Raymond: 好，噉我哋再推薦多一次。其實我哋唔知第一、二集我哋已經有推薦你哋個節目㗎啦。噉我哋再推薦！
(Nice, we will promote it. Actually, I think we talked about it in the first or second episode. But we will promote it again!)
Israel: 係呀，多謝你哋分享。
(Yeah, thanks for sharing.)
Raymond: 聽絮言狂想。
(Listen to seoi6 jin4 kwong4 soeng2.)
Israel: 係，噉點呀？我哋係...
(Well, what now? We…)
Raymond: 完嘅囉喎，係唔係呀？差唔多喇。
(We’re done, right? Pretty much.)
Samuel: 完咗先？
(Done?)
Raymond: 定係你哋仲有嘢要。
(Or is there still stuff you guys want to cover.)
Samuel: 因為要，因為要佢哋講。
(Well it’s because they need to speak.)
Raymond: 要我哋講？講咩？
(We need to speak? And say what?)
Israel: 哦，係喎！
(Oh, yes!)
Kenneth: 哦，係喎！
(Yes!)
Samuel: 你打出嚟。
(Type it out!)
Raymond: 有咩？
(What’s this?)
Kenneth: 噉係咪又重複？
(Maybe this is a bit complicated?)
Raymond: 仲有儀式115，儀式㗎？
(There’s a ritual, is there?)
Israel: 唔係,我哋陣間剪囉。阿靳尼你自己私底下116錄返個 outtro 囉。
(Not exactly, we’ll cut it. Kenny will record the outro on his own.)
Samuel: 好呀。吓？噉嗰句嘢？
(Good. Huh? What’s that sentence?)
Israel: 唔知道你有冇留意到永遠都係阿靳尼做個 outtro。所以呢。
(I’m not sure if you’ve noticed that Kenny always does the outro. So…)
Samuel: 好呀。
(Good.)
Israel: 但係之後。
(But after.)
Samuel: 噉嗰句嘢係唔係要...
(But that sentence…)
Raymond: 用我哋講呀？
(We say it?)
Israel: 你打出嚟啦。
(You type it out.)
Raymond: 畀 Cameron 講吖，畀 Cameron 講。
(Give it to Cameron to say.)
Cameron： 唔好嘅，靳尼嘅聲音好啲。
(No, Kenny’s voice is better.)
Raymond: 咪呀，你係咪有句嘢要嘉賓講㗎？定係咩呀？
(No, don’t you have a sentence you have guests say? Is that it?)
Cameron： 我就覺得佢係主持人一樣。
(I thought he was like a presenter [on TV or radio].)
Raymond: 哦，係喎，係喎。
(Ah, yes, yes.)
Cameron： 聲音係呀，係呀。
(His voice is.)
Raymond: 噉點呀？要一齊講定係點呀？
(What? We say it together or..?)
Samuel: 你鍾意可以一齊。
(If you like you can say it together.)
Raymond: 我哋夾117啦，Cameron 收到未呀？
(We can collaborate, did you get it Cameron?)
Cameron： 咩，咩，噉我哋下次再... 嗰個字...
(Well, then next time we’ll… that character…)
Raymond: 絮言，絮言
(seoi6 jin4)
Cameron： 嗰個點讀？
(How do you read it?)
Raymond: 佢哋個節目名。
(The name of their program.)
Cameron： 哦，絮言狂想。哦，好好。
(Ah, seoi6 jin4 kwong4 soeng2. Good, good.)
Raymond: 我哋要數呀，係咪呀？即係你好少有幾個嘉賓一齊。
(We need to count, right? You rarely have guests do it together.)
Samuel: 可以一齊，可以分開。
(You can do it together or separately. )
Cameron： 絮言狂想啦。
(seoi6 jin4 kwong4 soeng2.)
Israel: 之後剪埋118一齊。
(We’ll edit it together later.)
Raymond: 好。噉呀我哋一，噉點呀？噉我哋一齊定分開呀，Cameron?
(Alright. Then how should we do it? Together or separate? Cameron?)
Samuel: 一人講一半可以。
(Or each person can do half.)
Raymond: 吖，都好喎。
(Ah, that works too.)
Cameron： 噉我哋下次。
(Then next time..)
Raymond: 好，嚟過嚟過。
(Good, again, again.)
Cameron： 好，噉我哋下次
(Alright.. Then next time…)
Raymond: 再絮言狂想啦。
(...we’ll rhapsodize on language!)
Samuel: 好嘢！
(Great!)
Everyone: 好嘢！
(Great!)
Raymond: 多謝晒你哋呀。係啦，有講不完的話。多謝，多謝。
(Thanks, everyone. Yes, there’s much left to be said. Thank you, thank you.)
Kenneth: 多謝你哋。
(Thank you.)
Raymond: 係喎。好,我哋保持119聯絡120，睇點樣大家。好，辛苦121晒大家，遲啲見，拜拜。好啦，拜拜！
(Yes, let’s keep in touch, see how everyone is. Great, that was hard work, everyone. See you later, bye bye! Good, bye bye!)