#31 Guest Episode: Bernice Chan, Part 1 (粵語)
陳志媺 Bernice Chan 係一名資深記者，佢嘅事業橫跨太平洋，任職於香港嘅《南華早報》同喺溫哥華嘅加拿大廣播公司。 她仲主持過屢獲殊榮嘅 Eat Drink Asia 播客節目。 喺訪問嘅第一部分，我哋講到佢嘅職業生涯以及香港對佢學習粵語嘅影響。 請記得收聽埋下一集我哋對話嘅後半部份。
Vocabulary
- 嘉賓 gaa1 ban1 (N) guest
- 資深 zi1 sam1 (ADJ) experienced, veteran
- 傳媒 cyun4 mui4 (N) media
- 內容 noi6 jung4 (N) content
- 卒之 zeot1 zi1 (ADV) eventually, finally
- 訪問 fong2 man6 (N/V) interview; to interview
- 執笠 zap1 lap1 (VO) close for business (lit. pack basket)
- 廣播 gwong2 bo3 (N/V) broadcast; to broadcast
- 奧運 ou3 wan6 (N) Olympic games
- 報社 bou3 se5 (N) news agency
- 共同 gung6 tung4 (ADJ/ADV) common; together
- 主修 zyu2 sau1 (N/V) college major; to major in
- 專業 zyun1 jip6 (N/ADJ) profession; professional
- 開頭 hoi1 tau4 (N) beginning
- 選擇 syun2 zaak6 (N/V) choice; to choose
- 勁 ging6 (ADJ) powerful, strong
- 報道 bou3 dou6 (V/N) to report; report
- 成功 sing4 gung1 (ADJ/N) successful; success
- 注定 zyu3 ding6 (ADJ/V) destined; doom
- 生命 sang1 ming6 (N) life
- 食物 sik6 mat6 (N) food
- 作品 zok3 ban2 (N) creative work
- 話題 waa6 tai2 (N) topic
- 編輯 pin1 cap1 (N/V) editor; to edit
- 辭職 ci4 zik1 (VO) to quit job
- 入行 jap6 hong4 (VO) to start career
- 飲食 jam2 sik6 (N) food and drink
- 崗位 gong1 wai2 (N) job post
- 接手 zip3 sau2 (VO) to take over
- 部門 bou6 mun4 (N) work department
- 專寫 zyun1 se2 (V) to write specifically
- 偏見 pin1 gin3 (N) bias, prejudice
- 辯論 bin6 leon6 (N/V) debate; to debate
- 廚師 cyu4 si1 (N) chef
- 料 liu2 (N) ingredient
- 知識 zi1 sik1 (N) knowledge
- 研究 jin4 gau3 (V/N) to research; research
- 試餸 si3 sung3 (VO) to taste dish
- 返（返）轉頭 fan1 (fan1) zyun3 tau4 (VO) to turn around, to U-turn
- 覆返 fuk1 fan1 (V) to call back, to reply
- 監 gaam1 (V) to force
- 土生 tou2 saang1 (ADJ) locally born
- 怕醜 paa3 cau2 (ADJ) shy
- 出聲 ceot1 seng1 (VO) to say out loud
- 姑婆 gu1 po4 (N) grandaunt
- 透過 tau3 gwo3 (PREP) through, by means of
- 浸出嚟 zam3 ceot1 lai4 (VC) to be immersed in
- 接受 zip3 sau6 (V) to accept, to receive
- 經歷 ging1 lik6 (V) to experience
- 類似 leoi6 ci5 (ADJ) similar
- 被迫 bei6 bik1 (V) to be forced to
- 口音 hau2 jam1 (N) accent
- 好奇 hou3 kei4 (ADJ) curious
- 口味 hau2 mei6 (N) taste
- 海鮮 hoi2 sin1 (N) seafood
- 鮮甜 sin1 tim4 (ADJ) fresh and savory
- 爽 song2 (ADJ) refreshing, crispy, crunchy
- 識食 sik1 sik6 (ADJ) knowledgeable about eating
- 微妙 mei4 miu6 (ADJ) delicate, subtle
- 潮流 ciu4 lau4 (N) trend
- 分俾 fan1 bei2 (V) to distribute, to portion
- 傳統 cyun4 tung2 (N/ADJ) tradition; traditional
- 熱辣辣 jit6 laat6 laat6 (ADJ) piping hot
- 追（呢啲）星 zeoi1 (ni1 di1) sing1 (VO) to idolize (these) stars
- 黑松茸 hak1 cung4 jung4 (N) black truffle
- 海膽 hoi2 daam2 (N) sea urchin
- 生蠔 saang1 hou4 (N) raw oyster
- 逼住 bik1 zyu6 (ADV) forced into, without choice
ADJ - Adjective
ADV - Adverb
N - Noun
P - Preposition
V - Verb
VC - Verb complement
VO - Verb object
Raymond: 好，我哋今日好開心呢，我哋又有一位新朋友。呀其實唔係新朋友喇，我都識咗呢位嘉賓1呢，其實轉下眼都好幾年喇。噉呢，佢係一個好資深2嘅傳媒3工作者啦，噉呀佢喺香港啦，好長時間喇。噉呢，佢就係叫做 Bernice Chan。噉呀好開心佢今日可以同我哋傾下偈啦，分享吓，無論佢喺香港生活呀、工作呀、同埋仲有好多好特別嘅內容4佢會同我哋分享嘅。噉不如我哋請阿 Bernice 你，你自己介紹吓自己先啦，好唔好呀？
(Alright, we’re very excited today, as we have a new friend. Actually, she’s not really a new friend, somehow I’ve already known her for a number of years. She’s a veteran in the media industry, and she was in Hong Kong for quite a while. Her name is Bernice Chan. I’m very excited for her to chat with us today and share, whether about her life in Hong Kong or her work, and there’s still a lot more content that she can share. Bernice, would you mind introducing yourself some?)
Bernice: Hello! 我就喺溫哥華出世、長大嘅。跟住，畢咗業之後，即係喺 UBC 畢咗業之後，就返香港囉。就好似 1995 年咁上下啦，就搵工做啦。 And then 卒之5搵到一份工喺一間報紙，叫做《東快訊》，Eastern Express。就喺《東方日報》嘅西報嘅。嘩，我開工之後，嘩，好鍾意做呢行呀，就可以同人哋做訪問6，跟住寫嘢囉。 And then 做吓就。。。《東快訊》就執笠7喎，就好快執笠，即係一年半之後就執笠。And then 去咗《虎報》， 即係嗰陣時叫做 Hong Kong Standard。
(Hello! I was born and raised in Vancouver. After I graduated from UBC [University of British Columbia], I returned to Hong Kong. It was around 1995 give or take, and I looked for work there. And then I finally found a job at a newspaper, called the Eastern Express. It was the English newspaper of the Oriental Daily News. After I started work, I really liked it, as I could interview people and write things. And then… Eastern Express closed, and it closed rather quickly, just a year and a half [after I started working there]. And then I went to what is now known as the Hong Kong Standard.)
And then 2001 年就返加拿大。 And then 去咗多倫多。不過我唔係好鍾意多倫多，就返溫哥華，2003年就返咗溫哥華就去加拿大廣播8公司 CBC 嗰度開始做嘢。 And then 做到2007年，因爲我好想去北京睇奧運9啦，睇吓奧運係點樣啦，就去申請一份工喺《中國日報》， China Daily，就係嗰度做嘢。 And then 卒之去到 Global Times，都做過嘢嘅。 And then… what’s it called? 環球。。。
(And then in 2001 I went back to Canada. And then I went to Toronto. However, I didn’t really like Toronto, so I returned to Vancouver, and when I returned to Vancouver in 2003 I started working at the Canadian Broadcasting Company. And I worked there until 2007, when because I wanted to go to Beijing to see the Olympics, to see what the Olympics were like, I applied for a job at China Daily and worked there. And then I finally went to the Global Times and worked. And then… what’s it called? Waan4 kau4…)
Raymond: 《環球時報》。
(Waan4 kau4 si4 bou3 [Chinese name of Global Times])
Bernice: 時報， yeah.
(Si4 bou3, yeah.)
Raymond: 係喇，應該《環球時報》，係。
(Yes, it should be Waan4 kau4 si4 bou3.)
Bernice: And then 2010 年就返咗香港，去就喺《南華早報》做嘢做到而家囉。
(And then in 2010 I returned to Hong Kong and went to the South China Morning Post and worked there until now.)
Raymond: 嗯，嘩，噉你都去咗，即係好幾間，即係報社10或者傳媒啦工作。但係本身你讀書，噉呀，嗱，你都話你喺 UBC 畢業啦，噉我而家喺呢度教書啦。噉所以我哋都係因爲有呢個共同11嘅學校先認識嘅噉。係啦，係啦，你最初訪問我啦，跟著喺香港，我喺香港見你啦。你以前呢，你係讀邊方面㗎？你嘅主修12，你嘅專業13？
(Yes, wow, you’ve worked for many press agencies or media outlets. But when you originally went to school, you said you graduated from UBC, that’s where I am teaching now. We first got to know each other because of the school connection. Yes, yes, when you first interviewed me, it was in Hong Kong, I saw you in Hong Kong. What did you study before? What subject, what major?)
Bernice: 我喺 UBC 讀 Asian Studies 同埋 English Lit 嘅。
(At UBC I studied Asian Studies and English Lit.)
Raymond: 嗯。
(Ah.)
Bernice: Yeah.
Raymond: 噉都係，都係算係。。。
(So that’s, that must have been…)
Bernice: Asian Studies 就讀普通話喎。唔係讀。。。嗰陣時冇廣東話可以讀嘅。
(I studied Mandarin, I didn’t study… At the time there was no Cantonese curriculum for us to study.)
Raymond: 係。所以呢個都，後來你都話你都想去中國工作啦，但係你有冇都有計劃，係想去香港去做嘢㗎？
(Yes. So this, later on you said you wanted to work in mainland China, but was there a specific plan where you wanted to work in Hong Kong?)
Bernice: 即係開頭14定。。。
(Is it at the very start…)
Raymond: 係囉，開頭又好，或者後，你後來點，係咪你嘅選擇15嚟㗎？去香港。
(Yes, whether at the start or later on, how did you pick to go to Hong Kong?)
Bernice: 因為，因為，90 年代嗰陣時呢，香港啲經濟，嘩，嗰陣時好勁16囉。 And then 嗰陣時，我讀書嗰陣時，即係畢咗業之後唔知做咩嘢工呀。噉嗰陣時報紙成日報道17，嘩，好多 Chinese Canadian 過去香港做嘢就好成功18喎。噉我覺得，嘩，或者我可以試下囉，係噉樣呀。噉我畢咗業一兩日之後就真係坐飛機返香港呀。
(Because at that time in the 90s, Hong Kong’s economy was, wow, really impressive. And then at the time, when I was studying, I didn’t know what I wanted to do after I graduated. At the time, newspapers were reporting daily about how many Chinese Canadians were going to Hong Kong to work and find success. I thought, “Wow, I could take a shot,” it was like that. And then just a day or two after graduating, I flew to Hong Kong.)
Raymond: 嗯，注定19呢，即係都係你嘅生命20裡面一段嘅時間都會喺香港噉樣。 Cameron 呢？你有冇問題想問吓呢？
(Ah, it was destined, then, that you would spend some time in Hong Kong. Cameron, do you have any questions that you want to ask?)
Cameron: 我覺得最，最大嘅問題，或者唔係大嘅問題，但係最重要嘅問題，就係你幾時開始寫啲同食物21有關嘅作品22？或者幾時對呢個話題23覺得“嘩，我有咁大嘅興趣”呀？
(I think the biggest question, or not really the biggest question [Note: daai6 man6 tai4 can sound more like “biggest problem” rather than “biggest question,” hence the clarification], but really the most important one, is when did you start writing pieces related to food? Or when did this topic start making you think, “Wow, I am really interested?”)
Bernice: OK，我喺《東快訊》做嘢嗰陣時呢，就有個，有個女人係英國人嘅。佢喺嗰個 Food 同埋 Fashion 個編輯24嘅。 And then 佢，佢同佢老公想離開香港喎， and then 嗰陣時我做咗年幾到囉， and then 佢，佢走喎，辭職25喎，and then 我老細問我：“噉你做呢份工喎”。就噉俾我做呢份工喎，好大嘅機會。噉，噉就係噉樣先入行26囉，做飲食27呢行囉，係囉。
(OK, when I was working at Oriental Express, there was an English woman there. She was the food and fashion editor, and then she and her husband wanted to leave Hong Kong, and then at the time I’d worked a couple years, and then she left, resigning, and then my boss said, “You’ll do this job.” He gave me the job just like that, it was a big opportunity. That’s how I first got onto this beat, for food and drink.)
Raymond: 但係你開始報道之前呢，即係你之前係咪都有人係做緊同一個工作或者崗位28，跟住你去接手29，定係係你開始去，去寫呢方面？
(But before you started reporting, was there someone doing the same work or position, and then you took it over, or you started the position and writing about this topic [food]?)
Bernice: 我嗰陣時已經喺嗰個部門30就 features 㗎。就寫 lifestyle 嗰啲嘢。噉我冇專寫31食物嗰啲嘢嘅， yeah， so 一個好大嘅 learning curve，學咗好多嘢。
(Before that time I was in the features department. I was writing lifestyle content. I did not have a food writing specialization, yeah, so there was a big learning curve, I learned a lot of stuff.)
Cameron: 同埋我覺得，好多香港人對食物有好強嘅睇法，或者佢哋自己嘅偏見32。所以你開始就 cover 食物嘅時候，或者飲食嘅時候，會唔會就同啲，就讀者就講下佢地意見，或者就係聽其他人對你嘅，你嘅 journalism 就有啲佢地自己嘅睇法，或者有啲，有啲辯論33？
(Also, I think that many Hongkongers have strong views about food, or their own biases. So when you went to cover food, or food and beverage, did you talk to readers about their views, or did you hear others who had a particular view on your journalism? Was there ever any debates?)
Bernice: 嗰陣時我要問啲，即係同啲廚師34做訪問囉。我要問佢哋點解你用呢啲料35煮嘢？點解呢啲料特別靚呀？你點煮呀呢啲餸？所以係噉樣先學，邊啲餸係靚，邊啲冇咁好食囉。係噉樣先可以學到嘢囉。
(Back then I would interview chefs. I would ask, “Why did you use this ingredient? Why is the ingredient particularly nice? Why do you cook these dishes?” So I first learned like this, [finding out] which dishes are beautiful, which ones don’t taste good. That’s how I first learned.)
Raymond: 你，噉你自己，譬如你唔係工作嘅時候，係咪要花多咗時間去認識，譬如飲食嗰方面嘅知識36呀，或者會唔會因爲噉樣，你自己真係研究37多咗點樣煮嘢食呀噉？
(Now did you, like when not working, for example, did you spend some time learning more about food and drink? Or maybe did you research how to cook some things?)
Bernice: Well, umm, 我哋，我去試餸38嗰陣時呢，就同另外啲記者一齊食嘅。噉呀，有啲真係好。。。就，即係對我講，多好多 experience, right? 噉，係噉樣先學到啲嘢囉，佢哋或者可以解釋吓點解佢鍾意去呢間餐廳 versus 另外一間餐廳。點解佢會點呢碟餸，即係嗰啲嘢囉，係噉樣先慢慢慢慢學囉。 And then 呢啲呢啲，另外啲記者就慢慢慢慢變到朋友囉。 And then 有時我哋 weekend 會出去食飯呀嗰啲嘢囉。就噉樣都都學到嘢啦。
(Well, ummm, when I went to try dishes, I would go with some other journalists, and some of them… well, relative to me, they had a lot of experience, right? That’s how I first learned stuff, as they could explain why they like one restaurant versus another, why they would order this dish, stuff like that, I first learned all that very gradually.)
Raymond: 好，噉，嗱，不如噉呢，其實我哋應該返返轉頭39啦，問返你，因爲呢個係 Bernice 你提我嘅，即係問返你個語言嘅背景呀，噉呀，嗱，你而家講廣東話啦，噉你屋企人係講廣東話嘅係咪？
(Good, well, how about… actually, we should back up a bit and ask, as Bernice [previously] asked me about this, what your language background is like. You speak Cantonese now, do your family members speak Cantonese as well?)
Bernice: 係呀，我細嗰陣時呢，我好曳呀，因為我爹地媽咪講廣東話呢，我會覆返40英文嘅。 And then 佢哋就冇監41我講廣東話嘅。 And then 有時我哋出去見吓啲，即係我爹地媽咪嘅朋友啦， and then 我一開聲呢，佢哋話：“嘩土生42喎。” And then 嗰陣時我唔知“土生”，我以爲“土生”係一個唔好嘢嘅，噉我好怕醜43囉，噉我唔敢出聲44喎。
(Yes, when I was a kid, I was very naughty, as whenever my parents spoke Cantonese, I would respond in English. And then they didn’t force me to speak Cantonese. And then sometimes when we went out to see my parents’ friends and I started to speak, they would say, “Wow, she’s clearly born here [i.e. in Canada].” At the time, I didn’t know the term “tou2 saang1” [locally born], but I thought it was something bad, so I got very shy and stopped opening my mouth.)
So，係我返香港嗰陣時，我先開始真係講，開始講廣東話嘅。 And then 我，我點學呢，就喺地鐵嗰度學囉，即係佢講下一站係咩，我就跟住一齊，即係講一樣囉，係噉樣先學到囉。And then 我每個禮拜去見我姑婆45食飯嘅，and then 佢成日都開 TV 呀嘛，噉喺嗰度先聽多啲呢，就， and then 問佢解釋佢哋講緊啲乜嘢呀，噉係噉樣先學到廣東話囉。係囉。
(So when I went back to Hong Kong, that’s when I really first started speaking Cantonese. And how did I learn? I learned on the MTR. When the overhead voice said whatever the next station was, I would speak along and say the same thing, that’s how I first learned. And then every week I would go to my grandaunt’s place to eat, and she always had the TV on. That’s where I heard more [Cantonese], and then I would ask my grandaunt to explain what they were talking about. That’s how I first learned Cantonese. Yeah.)
Raymond: 所以你學嘅廣東話就唔係喺學校學嘅，即係係透過46你工作、你生活喺嗰度，去浸出嚟47嘅係咪？
(So you learned Cantonese not in school but rather through work, your life, by immersion, right?)
Bernice: 大部份。我 14 歲呢就去。。。 Was it “中國文化中心”？
(For the most part. When I was 14 I went to… Was it the “Chinese Cultural Center?”)
Raymond: 嗯，中華文化中心。
(Yes, the Chinese Cultural Center.)
Bernice: 中華文化中心，喺溫哥華呢唐人街呢，佢哋有一個 Chinese class，嗰陣時我 14 歲，上堂同啲五六歲啲小朋友嘅， and then 真係好唔接受48囉。噉我讀就一年就冇再讀。
(The Chinese Cultural Center, it’s in Vancouver’s Chinatown, they have a Chinese class there, and when I was 14, I was taking classes with five- and six-year-olds. I really couldn’t take it. I studied for a year and then didn’t return.)
Raymond: 係呀，我諗呢個都係好多，即係如果講溫哥華本地喺度長大嘅好多小朋友、年青人，可能都經歷49過類似50噉樣，被迫51或者係唔係話好享受嘅呢個學習嘅經驗。
(Yeah, I think there are many cases like this of kids and young people who were born and raised in Vancouver who went through similar experiences, who were forced or perhaps didn’t really enjoy their experience studying [Chinese as a kid].)
Bernice: 不過我知道，即係如果我返香港做嘢，我真係要學講廣東話囉。噉，個陣時我知道我講啲口音52唔係好準，不過都要講呀。就係噉樣學囉。就多啲講，就多啲學到嘢囉。
(However, I knew that if I wanted to go to Hong Kong, I would have to study Cantonese. I knew that my accent wasn’t very standard, but I needed to speak more. So that’s how I learned, and the more I spoke, the more I learned.)
Cameron: 同埋飲食都有好多好特別嘅詞。所以就我有啲好奇53，你喺香港，同香港人講飲食嘅時候，會唔會發現有啲詞語就係講，可能係煮嘢嘅方法，或者食物嘅口味54，嗰個廣東話嘅講法，同英文有啲，有啲翻譯嘅問題？或者有啲嘢廣東話有嘅，但係英文冇嘅，你有冇呢個經驗嘅？
(Also, food and drink [as a topic] has many special words. So I am a little curious, when you were in Hong Kong talking about food and drink with Hongkongers, did you discover any terms–perhaps related to ways of cooking or the flavors of food–that had a Cantonese term that would be hard to translate into English? Or are there terms that Cantonese has that English doesn’t have? Have you had any experiences with these types of words?)
Bernice: 有呀，有呀，好多呀。或者我哋講海鮮55呢，食海鮮，我哋會話：“好鮮甜”，噉英文冇呢啲字喎。你點可以講，你食條魚，“嘩，真係好鮮甜56”，或者你飲湯“好鮮甜”。你點。。。 How do you explain that? 英文冇呢啲字呀。 Or 你講你食啲嘢“好爽57”。噉呀英文冇，冇，又係冇呢啲字。因爲英文冇咁多 description of 嗰啲，嗰啲食物囉。 It’s just “crunchy”, but “crunchy” 就唔係幾啱我哋想講“爽”嗰個 texture 囉。所以中國人，我哋我哋真係好識食58，因爲我哋有咁多 descriptive words, right?
[I have, quite many. Like when we talk about seafood, eating seafood, we say, “Hou2 sin1 tim4” [literally, very fresh and sweet], but English doesn’t have it. You could say when eating a fish, “Wow, this is very sin1 tim4,” or when drinking soup you might say, “Very sin1 tim4.” How… How do you explain that? English doesn’t really have this term. Or how do you say that something you are eating is “hou2 song2” [lit. very crunchy in an ideal way that is satisfying and refreshing]. English also doesn’t have this term. English doesn’t have that many descriptions for food. It’s just “crunchy,” but “crunchy” doesn’t quite fit the texture we mean when we say “song2.” So for Chinese people, we really know about food, as we have so many descriptive words, right?)
Raymond: 係呀，即係呢個語言同飲食其實都係嗰個關係都好，好微妙59呀，我都會覺得。嗱，噉，但係呢，你都喺香港都好一段時間，十幾年係唔係呀都有？
(Yes, as the language and the food are related. It’s very subtle, I think. But you were in Hong Kong for about ten or so years, yes?)
Bernice: 係呀。
(Yes.)
Raymond: 噉呢我諗你都會睇到，香港可能嗰個飲食嘅文化呢，都一路都有啲轉變啦，或者可能有啲新嘅潮流60呀噉樣。你可唔可以講吓你見到有啲咩變化？
(Well I think that you might have also witnessed some changes in Hong Kong food culture, or perhaps some new trends. Could you talk about some of the changes that you saw?)
Bernice: Well, Michelin 嚟咗香港十年到呀， and then Michelin 一嚟香港，嘩變得好快。即係開頭中餐，即係嗰啲靚嗰啲中，中式嗰啲餐廳啦，酒樓啦，佢哋，佢哋 serve 嗰啲餸係一大碟， right? And then 會分俾61人。And then Michelin 唔同喎，Michelin 就全部變晒，而家，每人一份一份就噉樣 serve 俾人喎。噉我覺得，即係傳統62唔係噉樣食喎，而家 presentation 係一個好大嘅問題。
(Well, Michelin has been in Hong Kong for over ten years now, and when Michelin came to Hong Kong things changed really fast. In the past at Chinese restaurants and hotels, they would serve food on a large platter, right? And then it would be portioned out among people. And then Michelin wasn’t the same, Michelin made it completely changed. Now, there is one serving per person. I think that is not how things were served traditionally, and presentation is a big problem now.)
噉我同啲廚師訪問嗰陣時呢，啲好傳統嗰啲廚師好唔鍾意。因爲佢哋鍾意熱辣辣63吖嘛，佢地唔鍾意花咁多時間將每份、將每人一碟嗰啲囉。 So，佢哋冇辦法，因爲成日追呢啲星64吖嘛， 米芝蓮嗰啲星。所以 especially 中餐嗰啲文化變咗好多囉。 And then 之前冇即係黑松茸65呀，冇 truffle 嗰啲嘢呀。成日用海膽66呀、生蠔67呀嗰啲， you know, for example，就一定要逼住68佢哋用呢啲料囉。 Yeah，所以變咗好多。
(When I’ve interviewed some chefs, some of the more traditional ones don’t like it at all. They like things piping hot, they don’t want to spend so much time doing the plating for each person. But there is nothing they can do, as is all about chasing the stars now, the Michelin stars. So there has especially been a change in the Chinese-style restaurants. There was also no truffle before. And now there is always sea urchins and raw oysters, for example, they’re definitely forced to use these ingredients. Yeah, so it’s changed a lot.)