#24 Guest Episode: Jade Wu, Part 2 (粵語）
Resources suggested at the end of the episode:
Language Reactor
Hong Kong Connection
Rhapsody in Lingo
CantoTalk
Resonate Literary Magazine
Vocabulary
2. 克服 hak1 fuk6 (V) to overcome
3. 熟悉 suk6 sik1 (ADJ) familiar
4. 特長 dak6 coeng4 (N) skill, specialty
5. 搜集 sau2 zaap6 (V) to collect
6. 輔導師 fu6 dou6 si1 (N) counsellor
7. 一頭冷水潑落嚟 jat1 tau4 laang5 seoi2 but6 lok6 lai4 (EXP) to rain on someone’s parade; to dampen someone’s expectations
8. 仁慈 jan4 ci4 (ADJ) kind, merciful
9. 控制 hung3 zai3 (N/V) control; to control
10. 起步 hei2 bou6 (N) headstart
11. 廣泛 gwong2 faan6 (ADJ) broad, wide
12. 層面 cang4 min2 (N) level
13. 評語 ping4 jyu5 (N) comment, remark
14. 攻擊 gung1 gik1 (V/N) to attack; attack
15. 強大 koeng4 daai6 (ADJ) powerful, strong
16. 圖片 tou4 pin2 (N) picture, image
17. 排版 paai4 baan2 (N) typesetting
18. 頭（都）大 tau4 (dou1) daai6 (ADJ) dizzy, overwhelmed
19. 靈感 ling4 gam2 (N) inspiration
20. 咁啱得咁蹺 gam3 ngaam1 dak1 gam3 kiu2 (EXP) coincidentally, by chance
22. 建立 gin3 laap6 (V) to establish, to build
23. 興致 hing3 zi3 (N) interest, mood
24. 熱誠 jit6 sing4 (N) enthusiasm, passion
25. 謙卑 him1 bei1 (ADJ/N) humble/humility
26. 字幕 zi6 mok6 (N) subtitle
27. 糾結 gau2 git3 (ADJ) be torn, indecisive
28. 領會 ling5 wui2 (V) to grasp, to understand
29. 收集 sau1 zaap6 (V) to collect
30. 紀錄片 gei2 luk6 pin2 (N) documentary
31. 中性 zung1 sing3 (ADJ) neutral
32. 偏向 pin1 hoeng3 (V) to lean to, to tend to
33. 貼地 tip3 dei6 (ADJ) down to earth
34. 疫情 jik6 cing4 (N) pandemic
35. 缺陷 kyut3 ham6 (N) defect, deficiency
36. 嘥氣 saai1 hei3 (EXP) To preach to the choir (lit. to waste one’s breath)37. 衝突 cung1 dat6 (N) conflict
38. 分析 fan1 sik1 (V/N) to analyze / analysis
39. 戰爭 zin3 zang1 (N) war
40. 忽然間 fat1 jin4 gaan1 (ADV) suddenly
41. (好）興 hou2 hing1 (ADJ) popular, trending
42. 測驗 cak1 jim6 (N) quiz, test
43. 達人 daat6 jan4 (N) expert, talent
44. 聯盟 lyun4 mang4 (N) alliance
45. 多元 do1 jyun4 (ADJ) diverse
46. 版權 baan2 kyun4 (N) copyright
47. 撳（個）掣 gam6 go3 zai3 (VO) press (a/the) button
48. 詩歌 si1 go1 (N) poem, hymn
49. 密不可分 mat6 bat1 ho2 fan1 (EXP) inseparable
50. 高不可攀 gou1 bat1 ho2 paan1 (EXP) unreachable, out of one’s league
51. 奇蹟 kei4 zik1 (N) miracle
52. 關注 gwan1 zyu3 (N) attention
53. 共鳴 gung6 ming4 (N) resonance
54. 天書 tin1 syu1 (N) book from heaven, a sealed/secret book
55. 培養 pui4 joeng5 (V) to foster, to nourish
56. 語感 jyu5 gam2 (N) language sense/intuition
57. 堅持 gin1 ci4 (N) persistence
58. 採訪 coi2 fong2 (N/V) interview; to interview
ADJ - Adjective
ADV - Adverb
EXP - Expression
M- Measure word
N - Noun
V - Verb
VO - Verb object
Transcript
Raymond: 今集有我哋同作家、播客節目主持、兼粵語、台山話、及普通話老師伍家瑩 Jade Wu 訪問嘅第二部分。佢出版咗呢三種語言嘅教材，其中學講台山話第一冊今年啱啱出版。呢一集我哋同 Jade 討論出版嘅過程同埋咁多年嚟佢嘅學生教咗佢啲乜嘢。
Cameron: This episode features the second part of our interview with Jade Wu, author, podcaster, and teacher of Cantonese, Taishanese, and Mandarin. She has published textbooks for teaching all three languages, with Learn to Speak Taishanese I having come out just this year. In this episode, we talked to Jade about the publishing process, and some of the ways her students have taught her over the years.
Raymond: 我又想睇，首先我又想問下你，即係呢幾年嚟呢，即係你譬如... 嗱首先講吓譬如你出版教材，其實我都有私底下1問過你嘅，即係我覺得要出一本書已經好唔簡單呀。即係你喺… 你去制作呢啲教材呀、或者去發展你嘅課程呀，嗰個過程裏面呢，即係遇到有啲乜嘢挑戰，你點樣去克服2呀噉樣?
(I am also interested to ask whether in recent years whether you, for instance… Perhaps first, speaking of publishing teaching materials—I have also asked you this in private—I think publishing a book is already no simple thing. So when creating these teaching materials, or when developing your own curricula, what sort of challenges have you run up against in that process and how have you dealt with them?)
Jade: 最大嘅挑戰呢，就係唔知點做呀。Like 我唔知… 我就係知即係，即係最大挑戰呢就係 like… 所有嘢，係所有嘢都係一個挑戰。因爲你咩都唔知，因為我對出版嘅過程啦又唔係，唔係話特別熟悉3啦。係直頭係一啲都唔熟悉啦係咪。我淨係知道我鍾意睇書、我鍾意睇小說啦，噉我想寫一本書係好似一本小說噉樣嘅嘢。噉我知道噉樣寫之後呢，其實我係好好彩嘅。噉可能大家都唔知道，其實我出版書嗰陣時呢，我讀緊大學嘅。噉讀大學嘅好處呢，就係你身邊有好多唔同特長4嘅朋友。噉同埋你有學校啦，學校有好多資源啦係咪？
(The biggest challenge is not knowing how to go about doing it. Like, I don’t know… I just know that the biggest challenge is like… everything, it’s all a challenge. Because I really didn’t know anything, I was not particularly familiar with the publishing process. I was not familiar with it at all. I just knew that I liked reading books, I liked reading novels, and I wanted to write a book that was sort of like a novel. After writing it like that, I know that I am actually very lucky. Perhaps people don’t know, but when I first put out a book, I was still in college. One of the nice aspects of college is that there are a lot of friends around you with different strengths. And if you have a school, schools have a lot of resources, right?
噉通常我第一個諗到嘅就係有兩個喇，譬如話我哋有我哋嘅 Writing Center 係咪？每個、每一間大學都有嘅。噉同埋呢，我學校呢仲有一個係叫做 SBDC，我哋叫做，好多紐約好多地方都有嘅，唔一定係大學，噉就叫做 Small Business Development Center。噉如果有興趣嘅朋友可以即係做吓資料搜集5呀，即係搵吓呀，你身邊有邊一啲 SBDC。噉我當時呢，我就好有興致噉樣去問嗰個，嗰個 advisor 呢，嗰個輔導師6呢，我就話：“我想寫書呀！噉點樣做好呢？”噉就，佢就會一頭冷水潑落嚟7，即係大家知唔知“潑冷水”呢，嘅意思就係話，你講得好興奮嗰陣時呢，佢就會同你講：“唔得㗎呢個，呢個唔掂嘅哩。”就係噉樣。
(The first thing I think of is actually two [resources], like we had our Writing Center, right? Every university has one. And my school also had what we called the SBDC, there are a lot in New York and other places, not just in universities, they’re called “Small Business Development Centers.” For anyone who is interested, you can assemble some materials and find an SBDC near you. At the time, I was interested in asking an advisor there, a counsellor, and I said, “I want to write a book! How do I go about doing it?” The first thing they did was rain on my parade [Cantonese version literally translates to having cold water pour down], though I don’t know if everyone knows the expression “to pour cold water,” [put3 laang5 seoi2] it means that when you say you are very interested in doing something, they [another person] says, “That won’t work, it can’t be done,” like that.)
噉我同佢講我想寫呢本書，噉第一個佢就同我講啦。佢當時嘅提議呢就係，當然我唔會即係同每一個人都噉講啦，但係當時佢係噉樣同我講嘅，佢就話：“你唔好搵出版社啦你，如果你想寫嗰本書。”佢真係唔係咁仁慈8噉同我講嘅，佢當時呢就係“你真係唔好搵出版社呀”噉樣。佢係噉樣講。佢嘅意思呢就係，你冇好多控制9呀，你，譬如話寫嘅時間要耐啲呀，噉所以我就當時聽咗佢講啦。同埋我覺得大學有一個好處呢，就係你身邊，如果你係想寫書嘅話呢，你身邊好多教授佢哋都曾經係作者。噉所以你可以即係如果你同佢哋關係好嘅話，你可以問吓佢哋。
(So I told them that I wanted to write a book, and the first thing that they told me was—it’s of course not what I would tell everyone—but at the time they put it to me like this, they said, “If you want to write that book, don’t go looking for a publisher.” They weren’t very kind in telling me that, at the time they just said, “You really shouldn’t go looking for a publisher.” That’s what they said. What they meant is that you don’t have much control [over your project], and you, for instance, writing can take a long time, so back then I listened to what they told me. And I think that one of the advantages of being at a university is that surrounding you, if you want to write a book, or many professors who are also authors themselves, so if your relationship is good with them, you can also ask them as well.)
但係我冇同佢地任何一個即係話特別好、可以好到問佢哋點樣寫呢樣嘢，噉所以我就搵咗呢啲輔導師，噉佢就俾咗一個諗法我。其實好多時，我哋就係需要知道點樣去有一個起步10啦， like 起步嘅地方，即係點樣去開始做呢樣嘢呢。噉有咗嗰樣嘢呢，你先可以即係廣泛11噉樣搵吓點樣做。噉佢就同我講話：“你自己出版 self-publish。”噉我又唔知係咩嘢啦，噉我又自己返去搵搵搵，即係做資料搜集。噉同時間我又寫啦，噉寫嗰陣時呢，我就會攞到去 Writing Center。噉即係你又知道啦，又係一頭冷水潑落嚟，佢就會覺得“你寫得呢度點點點、點點點點點。你覺唔覺得… 你點解要噉樣寫呢？”
(But I was not close enough to any professor such that I could ask them about how to go about writing this sort of thing, so I just went to the counsellor and that was the thinking that they shared with me. But many times, when we need to know the first step to doing something, like what the first step is, how to go about starting this sort of thing. In this case, you can first look around in a wider sense for pointers. What they [the counselor] told me was, “You can self-publish on your own.” I didn’t know what that was, so I went back and searched and gathered some information together. At the same time, I wrote, and I would take what I wrote to the Writing Center. As you know, that was also a process of having my expectations dampened. They’d say, “You wrote this like this this this, but don’t you think… why did you write it like this?”)
即係好多呢個唔同，即係層面12嘅評語13啦，即係都有批評啦當然。噉所以嗰陣時呢，你就要知道你呢個，你唔可以即係覺得佢攻擊14你呀，定係點樣。其實呢啲都係幫到我嘅，因爲你真係會遇到一啲讀者佢係、佢哋係會噉樣諗嘅。所以其實呀，噉當然所以你嘅心要強大15啦，噉要經得起一啲即係呢啲批評啦，同埋去藉著呢一啲機會去即係做改善啦噉樣。所以就，噉跟住落嚟呢，最大嘅挑戰，噉後尾呢，我寫咗之後呢，我又覺得，即係、即係嗌佢哋讀呢本書冇問題啦，但係你講一個故事，但係又冇咩圖片16呢，好似又唔係好… 即係我自己係讀者嘅話，我想有一啲圖片啦。跟住又問朋友啦，就係當時讀緊大學嘅朋友。
(It was a lot of these different levels of critique, and of course there would be criticism. So at the time, what you need to know is, you can’t think of it just as them attacking you or whatever. This is all meant to help you, because you’ll really encounter some readers who will think like this, so you of course need to develop thicker skin [Cantonese is literally need a “strong heart”] and withstand this criticism, and through this opportunity make some improvements. So from there, the biggest challenge at the end after I had done the writing was, I thought, well, getting people to read the book was no problem, but when you tell a story but don’t have any pictures, it doesn’t seem as good… Like if I am a reader, I like having some pictures. So I asked around among some of my friends who were also studying at university at the time.)
我話：“啊…”當時幫我畫畫嗰個係叫 Jasmine。我話：“啊，Jasmine，你咪好鍾意畫畫嘅？你有冇興趣嚟幫我畫下呢本書呀？”噉佢又話： “OK 啦！”噉樣。噉到咗 Writing Center 嘅人呢就會同我講：“你寫書，你千祈唔好用，即係你最後排版17呀、你做 layout design 嗰陣時呢，你就唔好用 Microsoft Office，你就唔好用 Word， right？你就用 InDesign。”噉我就 “OK，咩嘢嚟㗎？”噉我又返屋企又自己搵一輪。噉跟住我就睇到頭都大18晒，嗰陣時呢，即係點樣用呢個 Adobe 嘅 InDesign。
(I said, “Ah—” at the time, my friend who helped me with drawing was called Jasmine—so I said, “Ah, Jasmine, you like drawing, right? Would you be interested in helping draw for this book?” And she said, “OK!” Then at the Writing Center people told me, “When writing, absolutely do not, when doing the layout design, do not use Microsoft Office, don’t use Word, right? Use [Adobe] InDesign.” And I said, “OK, what’s that?” So I went home and did some searching again. Then I looked at stuff on how to use Adobe InDesign until I was dizzy.)
嗰陣時呢，噉我就有一個靈感19喇，就係無論我而家學得幾好，都唔會夠即係其他嗰啲專業嘅人士真係做得好啦。即使我花好多時間做呢樣嘢，都唔會做得比佢哋好。噉所以我就直接又問朋友啦，我又咁啱得咁蹺20。因為我平時呢，我就會我識得朋友，我就會，即係你會做一啲小小嘅觀察，即係你唔會，即係會，唔係好大件嘅事。譬如話我覺得呢個朋友好似有一個好靚嘅 Web Browser，噉我就去問佢呀：“June，你有冇，即係你知唔知呢，有啲邊啲人呢，識得排版呀？或者用 InDesign 呀？
(At the time, I was struck with the idea that no matter how hard I studied [InDesign], I still wouldn’t be able to do as well as experts. Even if I spent a lot of time on it, I still wouldn’t be able to do as well as them. So I went and asked some friends, just by chance, because normally when I meet people, I’ll do a little research, like, not a big deal or anything. For instance, if I thought a friend had a really beautiful web browser, so I went and asked, “June, do you know anyone, or is there anyone, who knows how to do layout? Or knows how to use InDesign?)
噉佢就會話喇：“你做咩事呀？我有識喎。”噉樣。即使佢唔識都好啦，佢可能都會介紹我俾其他人識。噉，所以就係，其實當中我係算係比較好彩嘅呢，就係：第一，你要，即係如果你係唔識一樣嘢嘅話呢，你真係永遠都唔知道你唔識啲咩嘢，係唔係？噉所以就係，都係要靠去問，即係其他人啦。同埋跟住呢就，即係唔好，即係驚，即係問人幫手呀噉樣。所以就當時最大嘅挑戰就係，即係唔知點樣做呢啲嘢，噉當時就問身邊嘅朋友噉樣啦。
(Then they’ll say, “What are you doing? I know how to.” Like that. Even if they don’t know it’s fine, maybe they can introduce you to somebody who does know. In that sense I was rather lucky, because, first, if you don’t know the same sort of thing, you’ll really go on forever not knowing what you don’t know, right? So you need to rely on asking others. Furthermore, don’t be afraid to ask others for help. At the time, the biggest challenge for me was not knowing how to do these sorts of things, so I just went and asked the people around me.)
Cameron: 噉有啲人話，有時你教學生嘅時候，學生都會教你啲嘢啦。你有冇呢個經驗呀？
(Some people say that when you teach students, students actually teach you some things. Have you had this experience?)
Jade: 係經常性有嘅。即係唔同方面嘅嘢啦，我覺得佢哋教得我最多嘅就係英文呀。呢個係肯定嘅係咪？噉因爲有時佢哋會講一啲，講一啲英文呀、或者詞呀係我唔識得嘅。噉你當時你就唔會講話“哈哈哈”噉樣笑過去。你會試下問佢哋：“點樣串呢個單字呀？即係點樣，你講、可唔可以再講多一次呀？”或者“你不如試下用廣東話試下去形容呢個單字？”噉樣。唔單止佢哋，我學到嘢啦，佢哋又學到嘢。
(It’s very typical. Among all the different things, I think what they teach me the most is English. That’s for certain, right? Because sometimes they’ll speak a little English, or use a word that I don’t know. In that instance you won’t just go “hahaha” and laugh through it. You’ll try and ask, “Why did you put that word in there? Can you say it one more time?” Or, “Why don’t you try using Cantonese to describe this word?” Like that. It’s not just them—I learn some things, they learn some things.)
噉經常性嘅呢就係我發覺好多我身邊嗰啲學生真係，如果佢哋好鍾意，即係廣東話嘅話呢佢對呢個流行文化呢都係有好大嘅興趣嘅。噉所以佢哋成日會同我推薦一啲戲啦，噉譬如話有時佢哋就會同我講一齣戲，係 TVB 嘅戲係咪。噉我就話喇：“啊我仲未睇過。”噉佢哋就會：“唔係呀嘛？ Jade! 你仲未睇過呢齣戲21？你一定要去睇下！”噉所以有好多時候相反係佢哋教返我、佢哋帶返我入去呢個 Canton Pop 裏面，即係呢啲劇集呀噉樣，再推薦返俾我。噉係一樣我覺得係幾好玩嘅嘢囉。唔單止有時我哋，雖然我係教書，但係唔係一定話一定要我教你，噉你聽我講噉樣，係一個建立22關係好好嘅機會啦。
(Normally what I find is that many of my students, if they like Cantonese, then they are also pretty interested in pop culture. They’ll constantly give me their suggestions for dramas, like on TVB. I’ll say, “Wow, I still haven’t seen that one.” Then they’ll say, “What? Jade! You still haven’t seen this drama? You have to watch it!” So a lot of times they’re the ones teaching me about Cantopop, about dramas, and giving me suggestions. I think it’s pretty fun. It’s not just that we, well, although I am the teacher, it’s not that I am always teaching you, but when you hear me talking, it’s a relationship-building opportunity.)
唔單止係我同你分享，你都可以同我分享即係你識嘅嘢、你覺得有趣嘅嘢。噉所以對我嚟講，其實學習呢個語言呢，就係當然係好重要啦，但係對我嚟講，其實係佢哋，見到佢哋即係咁有興致23，即係咁有興趣去學呢樣嘢，又咁有熱誠24啦，其實令到我覺得，我都覺得， you know，謙卑25好多啦。即係覺得“啊其實就算我係呢個 native speaker，我係即係本身我係識得講廣東話、廣東係我母語都好啦，其實我都仲有好多即係需要喺佢哋身上面學習嘅地方，”所以我覺得呢個係幾好嘅，係。
(It’s not just me sharing with you, you can also share things with me that you know about, things that you find interesting. So for me, of course the study of the language is very important, but for me, seeing them [students] being so passionate and interested in studying with so much enthusiasm, it leaves me, you know, with a strong sense of humility. As in, “Ah, even for me as a native speaker, someone who oneself speaks Cantonese, it’s my first language, there are still things that I need to learn through them.” I think this is quite good.)
Cameron: 好，噉你已經同我哋分享好多，所以我覺得我哋可以就講最後一個問題，就係你想同我哋嘅聽眾分享嘅資源。呢個我覺得大家係最鍾意聽嘅，因爲（聽咗）我哋嘅 episode 之後就可以搵到新嘅呢個資源。所以你今日想講嘅係乜嘢資源呀？
(Good, well, you’ve already shared a lot, so I think we can ask the final question, which is if you want to share some resources with us. I think this is everyone’s favorite, because I’ve heard after our episode [people] can go look for these resources. So what do you want to talk about today?)
Jade: 我想講好多呀，同埋呢，每一個… 哈哈，有冇多一個鐘呀？即係每一個學生，佢哋即係佢哋嘅水平唔一樣啦，噉佢哋可能用到嘅資源都唔一樣。噉我講一啲係大家可能都用得上嘅。首先我第一樣嘢，我每一個學生我都會肯定推薦嘅呢，就係好似我頭先講好多人都鍾意呢個香港嘅流行文化啦。如果佢哋係，即係繼續學廣東話嘅話，佢都會鍾意呢個。噉所以呢，就我會好推薦一樣、一個 Chrome extension 叫做 Language Reactor。
(There are a lot that I want to talk about, and each one, well… haha. Do we have another hour? It’s just that every student is at a different level, so the resources that they can use aren’t all the same. First I’ll talk about one that everyone can use. So the first sort of thing that all of my students will recommend has to do with what I just said about many people being into Hong Kong pop culture. If they keep studying Cantonese, they will like it. So I really recommend a Chrome extension called Language Reactor.)
我唔知道你哋有冇，其他嘉賓有分享過呢個。噉 Language Reactor 呢係點樣用呢？可以用喺 Netflix 嗰度，我覺得係超級好用嘅。就係你喺睇戲嗰陣時通常我哋覺得好辛苦呀睇呢個戲，一係你就揀英文字幕26，一係你就揀中文字幕， like subtitles right？噉我唔可以兩樣都有，即係我又要，一唔係就即係揀你想聽嗰個古仔呀，定係你想學中文呀？真係好糾結27嘅感覺。噉所以有 Language Reactor 之後呢，佢就基本上係雙重嘅字幕。譬如話佢第一行呢，就係用返 Netflix 本身嘅英文又好，中文又好啦。
(I don’t know if you or your guests have shared it before. So what is Language Reactor? You can use it on Netflix, and I think it is incredibly useful. Such as when you are watching a drama, it can be really tough because on the one hand you’ll pick English subtitles, and on the other you’ll pick Chinese, but I can’t have both, as in, do you want to choose such that you can understand the story or so that you can study Chinese? You really feel torn. But after getting Language Reactor, you get both subtitles. So for instance, on the first line you can have Netflix’s English or Chinese subtitles, either one is fine.)
跟住佢下面呢，佢就可以幫你翻譯。有時呢係人工翻譯，有時係呢個機器翻譯啦。噉所以呢就當然唔係話最好、最準確嘅翻譯，但係好過冇啦肯定係。其實我其實自己覺得呢個翻譯都唔錯嘅，我睇過嘅劇集裏面。噉所以啲人呢，我哋咪可以睇一邊睇中文，一邊睇英文。唔單止可以，即係領會28到嗰個古仔講咩嘅時候呢，又可以學到中文。
(Below that it will help you translate. Sometimes it is human translation, and sometimes it is AI translation. Of course, this isn’t always the best, most exact translation, but it’s better than not having both. I actually think the translation isn’t too bad for the dramas that I have watched. So for some people, we might as well watch both Chinese and English. That way, not only will you be able to grasp what is going on in the story, but you’ll also study Chinese.)
你仲可以呢，將呢啲單詞呢收集29埋，就話“呢個學咗、呢個未學。呢個嘅難度 difficulty 係零、呢個係一、呢個係二。噉樣將佢地分類，我覺得係好好嘅。噉唔單止係用喺 Netflix 呀噉樣， YouTube 都可以嘅。只要係佢嗰個 video 本身呢係有，有呢個我哋係叫做 subtitle 嘅話呢，你就可以有 cc 啦，我哋叫做有 cc caption 嘅話呢，都可以用呢一個 Chrome extension，所以我係非常之推薦嘅。噉呢個係第一樣啦，邊個都可以用到嘅。
(You can also gather together vocabulary words based on whether you have studied them already or not, as well as by difficulty—like this is Level Zero, this is Level One, this is Level Two. I think it’s great to separate them like this. You can use this not only on Netflix but also on YouTube. As long as the video itself has subtitles, or what we call “cc caption” [closed captions/captioning], you can use this Chrome Extension, so I highly recommend it. This is the first one [recommendation] that everyone can use.)
噉第二個呢，我可能想講嘅就係，我想講一啲可能你哋大家聽衆可能少聽啲嘅啦。我到咗即係高水平啲嘅學生呢，我其實會成日睇，喺上堂嗰陣時呢我就會播一小段嘅一個紀錄片30俾佢哋睇。噉嗰個紀錄片呢就叫做，嗰個系列呢叫做“鏗鏘集”。我唔知道你哋有冇聽過，可能… 嗱嗱你哋兩個都聽過喇。噉所以我點解會好推薦呢個？我覺得呢個係好中性31嘅，譬如話唔會即係話偏向32某一邊嘅意見呀噉樣。
(The second one [recommendation] is one that I think most listeners maybe have not heard about. For students who have made it to the advanced level, I’ll play a little bit of a documentary for them. The documentary series is called Hong Kong Connection. I don’t know if you two have heard of it… haha, yes you have. So why do I really recommend this one? I think it is pretty neutral, as in its viewpoint doesn’t tilt one way or the other.)
所以我覺得，同埋係好貼地33囉，通常都採訪一啲香港本地嘅居民呀，或者佢哋做嘅嘢。譬如話我係疫情34嗰陣時呢我就開始睇，都唔係疫情開始喇，我就開始睇多啲呢個紀錄片啦。因爲我哋而家唔可以周圍去旅遊，噉我哋唔知道可能其他地方發生緊咩事呀，或者具體、唔係新聞裏面日日會講到嗰啲呢，我哋就唔太清楚啦。噉鏗鏘集呢，就可以即係學到，即係幾多嘢囉，我自己覺得幾得意。
(I think that it is pretty down-to-earth, they cover a lot of regular Hong Kong residents, or the things that they do. For instance, I started watching this program a lot more at the start of the pandemic. Because we can’t travel all over the world right now, we can’t necessarily know what it’s like in other places at the moment, or to be exact, we’re less clear on the everyday sorts of things that the news doesn’t cover. Hong Kong Connection lets you study a lot of different things, and I think it’s very interesting.)
但係有一個小小嘅缺陷35啦，噉當然佢唔係爲咗我哋呢啲語言學習者設計㗎嘛，噉當然佢少少嘅缺陷就係，你要識得可能， you know，比較高水平嘅廣東話先可能聽得明多啲。噉如果唔係嘅話，你聽咗呢，你可能就會覺得好無聊，因爲你如果聽唔明嘅話就嘥氣36啦係咪。噉所以就高水平啲嘅學生可以參考下呢個。
(There’s just one small flaw, because of course it isn’t designed by those of us who study languages, but its tiny flaw is that you need to know rather advanced Cantonese in order to comprehend it. If you don’t, you might think that it is very boring and just a waste of breath. But advanced students should definitely check it out.)
Raymond: 噉我希望唔會同阿 Cameron 有衝突37啦，即係我唔知你今日會講乜噉。噉但係呢，第一個呢，就係我自己本身係學語言學背景啦。噉但係呢就好有趣，譬如你英文講關於語言呀、語言學嘅 podcast 都唔少嘅。但係呢，就基本上呢，即係直到去兩三年前呢先至終於有第一個係廣東話嘅叫 Rhapsody in Lingo。噉呢佢嘅廣東話應該叫“絮言狂想”噉呢佢就係有三個呢，即係對於語言嘅愛好者啦，噉亦都有語言學背景嘅年輕人呀，噉佢哋但係呢又用好輕鬆嘅角度，有啲似我哋噉樣啦，即係傾偈呢，就講語言學嘅知識啦。噉同埋亦都會分析38，即係最近流行嘅話題。
(I hope there won't be a conflict with Cameron as I don't know what you're going to say today. Regarding my first [recommendation], I have a background in linguistics, and what is very interesting, for example, is that there are many English podcasts about language and linguistics. However, basically, it wasn't until two or three years ago that the first Cantonese podcast [about linguistics] called Rhapsody in Lingo appeared. This Cantonese podcast has three language enthusiasts, so they are young people with linguistic backgrounds coming at it from a very relaxed perspective, a bit like us chatting, that they talk about their knowledge of linguistics. They also analyze the most recent popular topics.)
我最近聽咗兩集，譬如一集佢都有提到而家，即係譬如呢個俄烏嘅戰爭39呢，佢哋會解釋下呢個俄語呀、烏克蘭語呀，即係佢背後嘅歷史文化呀。噉呀最近喺網上又流行呢，即係唔知忽然間40呢，好興41有人都會做啲好一啲嘅挑戰嘅測驗42呀。即係呢會考吓你香港地理啦、香港流行文化，我唔知呢個有冇做呀。噉呀有一個係講香港廣東話嘅。噉呀設計呢個達人43嘅呢個挑戰嗰個創作人佢哋又做咗個訪問，其實我都識佢哋，噉呀好有趣。噉呀如果呢你對語言本身、或者語言學啦，特別係語言學有興趣呢，噉可以留意一下，呢個我會推薦啦。
(I recently listened to two episodes, for example, and one episode they also mentioned, for example, the current Russian-Ukrainian war, they explain the history of the Russian and Ukrainian languages and the culture behind them. Then recently on the internet all of a sudden someone created challenges or quizzes that became popular. They are to test your knowledge on Hong Kong geography, Hong Kong pop culture, and I don't know if this has been done. One of them is in Hong Kong Cantonese. Then they also interviewed the creators of this challenge, in fact, I know them, so it is very interesting. If you're interested in language, or especially linguistics, you can check it out. I would recommend this one.)
噉呀仲有一個，係喇，呢個呢就係新嘅。噉呢就叫 Canto Pop Music Podcast。你啱啱亦都有提到流行文化呢。噉呢個就係，呀我哋上一次嘉賓訪問呢，我哋有講到而家呢有呢個 Cantonese Creators Collaborative 係唔係？ CCC，即係呢大家去創作一啲粵語嘅一啲嘅內容嘅一個網絡啦。噉另外一個就係 Cantonese Alliance 啦，即係前史丹福大學粵語老師張錫莉老師發起嘅一個聯盟44呢。噉佢而家旗下呢即係有一個部分呢就專門做呢一個 podcast 呢，佢哋又係每個星期呢會講呢個粵語流行音樂，佢就會即係搵一個都幾熟悉呢方面嘅，人士同大家分析吓啦。我啱啱聽咗佢第一集啦，佢就係講 funk 呀，即係呢原來粵語流行曲而家都好多好多元45嘅。噉佢一個好處呢，就係佢係黐住呢，喺呢個 Spotify 嘅平台呢，佢一路講呢，佢就可以利用 Spotify 呢，就播埋嗰啲歌嘅，噉就唔會擔心到版權46嘅問題。噉如果你對嗰首歌有興趣，你撳個掣47直程可以聽晒成首歌噉樣。噉所以呢，我覺得佢呢個平台設計得幾聰明呀。噉所以呢，呢個就係，我都講咗好多，噉呀一口氣我會即係介紹大家可以留意吓呢三個嘅播客節目啦噉樣。好啦，噉 Cameron。
(So there is another one. Yes, this one is new. It is called the Canto Pop Music Podcast. You just mentioned pop culture. So this is, when we interviewed our last guest, we mentioned that there is now this Cantonese Creators Collaborative, right? CCC is a network of people creating Cantonese content. The other one is the Cantonese Alliance, an alliance initiated by former Cantonese teacher Dr. Sik Lee Dennig of Stanford University. She now has a part dedicated to this one podcast, talking about Cantonese pop music every week with someone quite familiar with this area for musical analysis. I just listened to their first episode, and he [the host] talks about funk, and it turns out Cantonese pop music is very diverse. One of the advantages is the podcast is connected to this Spotify platform, he can make use of Spotify to play those songs while he talks, so he does not worry about copyright issues. If you're interested in a given song, then you can just press a button to listen to the whole song right away. So, I think the design of this platform is brilliant. I have said a whole lot, in one breath introducing these podcasts that everyone can check out. Well, your turn, Cameron.)
Cameron: 今日想講嘅就係廣東話嘅詩歌48。因爲我覺得，可能有啲人會覺得，“我唔鍾意詩歌呀，”就係覺得呢個係，就係老人鍾意睇嘅嘢。但係我覺得詩就可以幫你培養你嘅嗰個語感，同埋呢排有個香港嘅詩人，佢嘅詩喺英國得獎，就係英文嘅詩。佢叫 Eric Yip，我覺得佢中文嘅名就係葉晉瑋。噉佢首詩嘅翻譯，廣東話嘅翻譯有兩種。有一個係正式中文嘅，另一個係口語廣東話嘅。噉好多人睇呢兩首翻譯之後就有好多睇法。
(What I want to talk about today is Cantonese poetry. Well, I think—or maybe some people think, “I don’t like poetry,” or they think that it’s just something that old people like. However, I think it can help us develop our sense of a language, and recently a Hongkonger’s poem won a prize in England, an English-language poem. He [the poet] is named Eric Yip, I think his Chinese name is Jip6 Zeon3 Wai5. As for the translation of his poem, there are actually two Cantonese translations, one using formal written Chinese and the other using colloquial Cantonese. Many people had different perspectives after seeing these different translations.)
因爲有啲人可能未睇過噉樣嘅就口語廣東話嘅詩，但係都有嘅，呢排有個就係香港嘅 literary magazine，叫《迴響》。噉《迴響》裡面有好多就係口語廣東話寫嘅故事同埋詩。佢哋有嗰個 digital subscription，都有 paper，但係我覺得如果你住喺其他嘅地方，就係香港之外，搵到嗰個 paper 嘅難啲，所以覺得 digital subscription 都得。
(It’s because some people might not have seen colloquial Cantonese poetry before, but it does exist, there’s even a recent literary magazine in Hong Kong called Resonate. Resonate has a lot of colloquial stories and poems. They have a digital subscription as well as a paper version, but I think if you live somewhere else, as in anywhere other than Hong Kong, then finding the paper version might be a little difficult, so the digital subscription is fine.)
但係我都有另一個建議就係你可以自己試吓寫廣東話嘅詩，因爲好多人會覺得，我唔係母語者，我冇呢個能力，其實我都覺得我就係叫做 second language learner。你都有自己嘅能力，用第二個語言表達自己嘅睇法。所以大家可以試吓寫自己嘅詩，跟住同佢哋嘅朋友或者老師分享吓。
(However, another one of my suggestions is that you can try writing Cantonese poetry yourself, because a lot of people might think, I am not a native speaker, I don’t have the ability to use my second language to express my own thoughts. So everyone should go try writing their own poem, and then share it with friends or teachers)
Raymond: 係呀，你講呢點真係其實好緊要呀，即係我覺得我哋成日呢，即係講緊呢個學語言呢，淨係停留喺語言嗰個層面。其實呢，佢同文學之間嘅關係真係密不可分49嘅。但係呢，我自己唔係文學嗰個背景訓練呢，即係有陣時，以前大家會覺得係啲好高不可攀50嘅嘢。噉但係譬如啱啱你講 Eric Yip 嗰首詩呢，真係呢次好大嘅迴響。同埋即係你唔同嘅人呢，可以睇到好唔同嘅嘢。即係呢個係一個，一個幾奇蹟51嘅，即係一個十七歲嘅一個年輕人創作呢首詩可以引起國際嘅關注52。
(Yeah, what you said is really important, that is, I think regarding learning language, we often just stay at the level of language. In fact, its relationship with literature is really inseparable. However, I myself am not trained with a background of literature, or sometimes, in the past, people would think that it was something unattainable. But for example, when you just mentioned Eric Yip's poem, it caught a lot of attention this time. And different people can have very different interpretations from it. This one is indeed quite a miracle, as a poem composed by a seventeen-year-old young man can attract international attention.)
Jade: 我可以，即係可以有少少共鳴53啦。因爲我係有一段時間呢，好似疫情嗰陣時，我係好鍾意睇詩嘅，我就睇一啲英文詩啦，噉我就試下自己去寫呀，關於即係最近發生嘅嘢呀噉樣寫詩。噉我覺得好好玩，因爲我平時就好鍾意寫嘢，噉我覺得好好玩嘅呢，就係我以前覺得好好玩，其實主要係因爲，我鍾意寫英文係因爲屋企人都唔睇得明我寫嘅咩，噉呢個就好似一個天書54噉樣嘅嘢。噉寫書呢、寫詩呢，就係一個好好嘅表達方式啦。同埋可以好似你講噉樣啦 Cameron，可以培養55，即係可以培養我哋嘅語感56啦，有時都係一啲情操呀噉樣。噉所以我就好鍾意寫啦。同埋我同你唯一嘅分別呢，就係我唔會隨便攞出嚟同人分享呀，呢個係， like 冇人可以… 哈哈… 係喇。
(This resonated with me a little bit, because there was a period of time at the beginning of the pandemic when I really liked to read poetry. I would read some English-language poetry, and then I would try to write a poem myself, a poem about things that had happened recently. I thought it was quite fun, as I usually do like writing, but I thought it was really fun, the main reason being that my family members can’t read English, so it was like some sort of sacred book. Writing books and poetry, it’s a really good form of self-expression. And just as you said Cameron, it helps us develop our sense for a language, and sometimes our sentiments. So I really like writing, though perhaps the one difference between us is that I would not just casually share my writing with others… haha.. yeah.)
Raymond: 話唔定以後你嘅詩好值錢㗎可能。
(Who knows, your poems might be worth something in the future.)
Jade: Oh, no. 哈哈，鼓勵你哋分享。哈哈，係喇。
(Oh, no. Hahah. I encourage you to share. Haha, yes.)
Raymond: 我諗寫詩呀、創作呢啲，一個好處就係，你冇啱定錯嘅嘛。佢唔可以話你寫嗰啲嘢係錯嘅嘛。呢個係我嘅創作嚟嘅。
(I think that writing poetry, writing creatively, one of its advantages is that there is no right or wrong. They can’t say you wrote it wrong. This is my creation.)
Jade: 係呀，係呀，係呀，冇錯冇錯講得啱。
(Yes, yes, yes, absolutely right.)
Raymond: 多謝你哋嘅分享。好，大家總之繼續對學習，或者對創作都要繼續有呢個堅持57啦。多謝晒你呀， Jade。
(Thank you for sharing. Alright, let’s all continue to study languages, or persist in our creative pursuits! Thank you so much, Jade.)
Cameron: 多謝晒。
(Thank you.)
Jade: 唔使客氣，多謝晒你哋呀，好開心參加今日嘅採訪58呀。
(No need to be polite, thank you so much, I’m so happy I got to take part in today’s interview.)